Monday, September 28, 2009

You guys are precious. You deserve everything you have asked for ...


Watch Karan Thapar's Devil's Advocate interview of HRD Minister Kapil Sibal (or, read the transcript), where the minister is reported to have made several 'concessions'.

Without realizing what the 'concessions' mean, Thapar sounds very satisfied about his batting on behalf of IIT faculty. He has every right to be, I suppose; after all, he gets to condescend to the minister for the latter's "mature" responses in the interview! [You won't find that in the transcript, but watch Part 3 of the interview.]

You can read the interview to see for yourself how much the 'concessions' are really worth. I'll stick to what I think is the most important issue: OCAP. In the excerpt below, note how this issue has been framed as one of "10% minimum" (and hence, as something that intrudes into institutional autonomy), but not as a terrible deal -- for both individuals and institutions.

Karan Thapar: Let's then, to clarify the situation, go through the principal demands of the IIT faculty one by one so that you can explain what is your actual response to it.

To begin with, the IITs are a little perplexed, or perhaps I should put it a little strongly, concerned with your recent stipulation that at least 10 per cent of the entries into faculty should be by way of contracts. Let me begin by asking you, what's the purpose of this?

Kapil Sibal: The purpose is that normally, or rather that is a norm that when it is a person with a PhD without industrial, teaching or research experience (joins the IIT as faculty), he/she should be on a contract. But on a regular position, not ad-hoc.

On contract, if at the end of three years, the IIT people and the board feel that he should be absorbed, then he should be absorbed. However, this is the norm. If however in the course of these three years, the IIT Board or the Director recommends to the board that look, this man is outstanding; let's even waive the three year period, we would not interfere in that.

Karan Thapar: You said something really important. You are saying that although the 10 per cent requirement to the new entrants to the faculty that are to be taken on contract is the norm; and that the norm is designed to make sure that you get the best of people and not left out strata of people you do not want. Nonetheless, you have said to me that exceptional people at the discretion of IIT directors can be taken, on tenure from the outside.

Kapil Sibal: Absolutely, yes. Not only exceptional people, but people who have been taken on three-year-contract and who expect to be absorbed after three years; even their term can be reduced when the IIT Board says that look, here's a man who is exceptional, so let us waive the three-years (norm).

While I leave you to think about whether this is the victory you really wanted, let me put in my bits of snark. It's good to get the anger out of one's system ...

When you invent "autonomy" as a organizing theme for your protest action (just three days before the said action), you deserve anti-concessions, that actually raise the bar for you -- "Sure, we would love it if you waive the post-doc requirement for a C.N.R. Rao or a Stephen Hawking! [Implication: anyone less deserves just an OCAP]

When you use autonomy as a respectable cover for your piffling grievances, you deserve only meaningless platitudes on autonomy -- and nothing about your grievances.

When you sell autonomy-coated scrap metal as designer jewellery, you deserve sugar-coated non-concessions -- "IITs are precious!" and "IIT councils always had autonomy! Why would we mess with that?"

* * *

I became concerned (and very upset) when pay hike demands were hijacked by a silly debate on autonomy because I feared that the OCAP issue would be de-emphasized and misrepresented.

I can only hope I'm wrong in my assessment that these fears may just have come true.

33 Comments:

  1. Anonymous said...

    Whatever the faculty associations do, this is a lost battle now.

    Kapil Sibal will not back down on the OCAP issue, he has already committed himself to "quality control".

    Another middle ground approach is to keep OCAP, but raise the entry level salaries to 30+8k, and put the #+ years post-PhD experience holders to PB4. This was originally suggested by many academic experts. This would give a little bit of a boost to the paychecks of newcomers and motivate them to sign up.

    Whether we get CNR Raos who get the Nobel prize this time around, is another story. Engineering faculty, don't even try: poor Alfred did not leave anything in the Will for you.

  2. Anonymous said...

    "Sure, we would love it if you waive the post-doc requirement for a C.N.R. Rao or a Stephen Hawking!"

    That's absurd! Let the 'degree of exception' be decided by the selection committee members who are more qualified (and experienced) in selection than our honorable minister.

  3. Chitta said...

    Abi:

    What would you say if the rules had been changed to say that in a unit (dept) in IIX no more than 30% would be professors and no more than 60% would have a rank higher than associate professors or something like that?

    Wouldn't that be taking away autonomy that the IIXs had? Currently they have the autonomy to decided who is qualified to be an associate professor and professor and this decision is not restricted by some arbitrary percentage.

    I think many IIT faculty consider the new 10% rule for OCAPs and 40% for senior professors as similar assault on the autonomy.

    Believe me losing such autonomy (or whatever you may call it) is a slippery slope.

    ==

    As someone suggested in another comment, it would make much more sense to use the 40% rule about senior professor rank with a merit based fellowship of a limited time (say 3 years) so that it really becomes an incentive. With the current rule, it may actually lead to frustration as many good professors would have to wait the senior professors to retire so that they have a chance of getting that rank.

  4. sibal's advocate said...

    Is there any data available on how many Phd's with less than 3 year of post-doc were hired at IIT's in last 10 years (preferably with a department wise break-down)?

    I am not a party in this whole circus (just a grad student munching my Ramen), it is not obvious to me that OCAP wouldn't lead to better quality control.

    In sciences, even Hawking smart people tend to do a post-doc and most professors I know tend to place high value on their post-doc experience. So it doesn't seem all that bad.

    As for engineering, I would think that pay-stub of a starting professor can not be comparable to a research/teaching job in any case (anywhere in the world) so people who want to go to industry for money reasons would anyway stay away from academia. And for people who do want to stay in academia, getting paid anything above Rs 25,000 + various TA/DA and having the possibility of becoming permanent faculty within three years is better than doing a post-doc in India or some developed country. And they would have all the motivation to work as hard as they can to land a tenure. If they were so exceptionally smart that some university in USA may hire them directly after PhD, then as Sibal said IIX can hire them too.

    So what's the big deal about OCAP? (yes, yes I am asking for it).

  5. harish said...

    Hello Abi,

    Chill out, mate... You are absolutely right. These are no concessions (as I did mention in my last mail, but I will let you have the pleasure of decoding this bit -- you are the paper writer, I am only a reviewer :-)).

    What are the IIT FAs saying? Abi, anything on this front... Does anyone know any IIT faculty blogs? Maybe they are smart enough not to blog ;-)

    @Chitta "What would you say if the rules had been changed to say that in a unit (dept) in IIX no more than 30% would be professors and no more than 60% would have a rank higher than associate professors or something like that?" BAD IDEA

    @Chitta "I think many IIT faculty consider the new 10% rule for OCAPs and 40% for senior professors as similar assault on the autonomy. Believe me losing such autonomy (or whatever you may call it) is a slippery slope." I too feel that IIT faculty seem to see these two rules under the same umbrella. Yes, and that is indeed a slippery slope.

  6. Anonymous said...

    The minister is already winning the media war. They are all, uncritically, just repeating what the minister said, about him not interfering in the autonomy of the IITs.

    But all you IIT faculty, you deserve this. Because you were foolish enough to stand
    up for something. Your fight was a lost one from the beginning. How stupid could you be to fight when

    you have a wiley HRD minister who is also a lawyer and gets daily practice in manipulating the media

    when the media, who instead of just presenting the facts, muddies the waters by
    comparing with MIT salaries, and what not

    when all your directors are gutless lackeys of the minister, who wouldn't dare jeopardize their future placement

    when all IISc faculty, who are infinitely wiser than you, have told you repeatedly on their blogs, that you are fighting for piffles

  7. harish said...

    @Anon 12:13 LOL.... Hey mate, if you are IIT faculty, then please do not waste your time here. Ask your FAs to fight this media war for those piffles instead of spending time reading these blinkered blogs...

  8. Abi said...

    @Chitta: The problem with OCAP is not that a minimum of 10 % should be in that rank. The problem is that OCAP is an absolute BAD, and needs to be eliminated right away before it inflicts damage. If that's not possible, it should be reconfigured into a proper post-doc (without being saddled with teaching and other duties).

    I'm completely with you on the possibility that the 40% cap may be a slippery slope. But it could be swatted away (in the way Sibal did) by saying "you always have the possibility of allowing exceptional candidates through!"

    There is another reason that I think this was not an important issue: the additional salary that a senior professorship gives you is just Rs.1,500! I would have a lot more respect if the demand was for scrapping this position. Instead of treating that senior professorship with the disdain it deserves, we seem to have implicitly accepted the ignominy of having to subject ourselves to an evaluation -- all for Rs. 1,500. I know academic stakes are pretty low, but this is plumbing the depths of low-ness!

    Finally, the fact that the IIT faculty have chosen to see the two things (the 10 percent floor on OCAP and the 40 percent ceiling on senior professorship) as forming one BIG assault on autonomy. This, I think, is sad; it has just led to a whole bunch of non-concessions. Worse, the OCAP thingy is still there!

    @Harish: I don't know of any IIT FAs blog. They seem to be good at issuing press releases and memorandums, though!

    @Anon (at 12:30 pm): "stand up for something"?

    What would that something be? If it is the autonomy, IITs got it so easily! The next time around, perhaps the IITs should stand up for something specific and truly worthwhile. Maybe something like scrapping OCAP.

    Does it require infinite wisdom to conclude that additional sums of Rs. 500 to 1,500 are just piffles (when salaries just jumped by Rs. 20,000 to 35,000)? If they are not piffles, WTF are they?

    @Harish: Blinkered blogs? Coming from someone who seems to have bought into unfocused concepts that are soooo easily achievable, that was a good one. Thanks!

  9. harish said...

    Hello Abi,

    I agree 100% that OCAP is an absolute BAD. Let there be no doubts about that. It would choke the input into this system and all IIXs would be history.

    About the blinkered blogs (you asked for it and so here it goes) -- I am sorry, but I do see a very inherent bias in all your statements about IIT faculty, whatever maybe the reason. I think I have pointed out several of these things in my earlier posts and you still do not seem to comprehend. Therefore, let me expand.

    Let me pick an example from your latest post -- "the additional salary that a senior professorship gives you is just Rs.1,500! I would have a lot more respect if the demand was for scrapping this position. Instead of treating that senior professorship with the disdain it deserves, we seem to have implicitly accepted the ignominy of having to subject ourselves to an evaluation -- all for Rs. 1,500. I know academic stakes are pretty low, but this is plumbing the depths of low-ness!" OK, thus you have proved these IIT profs are some pathetic fools who deserve what Uncle Sibal is giving them.

    But hold on a second -- please revisit the memorandum by IIT FAs dated Sept 21 that you have put up (I read it there and have just cross-checked). On page 3, in the section about Profs, specific modifications requested, it says "Alternatively, all Professors should have the same AGP" -- they have not even bothered to say what this amount should be. That I would say, is "treating that senior professorship with the disdain it deserves". But then I do not see your "a lot more respect if the demand was for scrapping this position". You do not even seem to agree that they have done this. You keep harping away about piffles. Tcha !!

    By the way, I have not "bought into unfocused concepts" -- maybe I should post a critique of where the IIT FAs are mucking up. Of course, what you are calling "unfocused" seems to me very focused indeed. On the other hand, you seem to be dancing out your "IIT faculty are fools" dance over shifting sands. Despite mounting evidence, you are still up there on your precarious perch. What you do about this, is your take... And so please do not thank me no thanks, I am but a reviewer :-).

    As to what you are doing about "OCAP is BAD" -- your silence is deafening.

  10. Anonymous said...

    First of all, we should thank Abi for analyzing OCAP in great detail.

  11. Anonymous said...

    IIT FAs statement that the protest is "not merely about salary" was sufficient for the minister and the media to portray demands as unfair. If it was not about salary, they should have mentioned it clearly.

  12. harish said...

    @Anon 4:31: Of course, we should thank Abi for that analysis. In fact, let me also thank him for coining the term OCAP :-) But then what? It is clear that the IIT chaps are doing something about it -- however much you may agree or disagree with how they go about doing it. But OCAP affects all IIXs. So what are the other Xs (T exempted) doing about it?

  13. Abi said...

    @Harish: I went back to the stuff that you pointed to in the IIT-FAs' 21 September memorandum. If you think that set of paragraphs, together, represent disdain for the senior professorship, was that a sad attempt at a "gotcha", or what? Sorry, you'll have to try harder.

    This is unlikely to make you change your mind about my bias, but I did say that the IIT FAs' demands were moderate and based on appropriate (comparative) analysis. But that was in the first round. The second round, IMO, was an utter disaster.

    I do look forward to your critique of IIT FAs' strategies and tactics. Do post it.

  14. harish said...

    @Anon 4:39 -- Who says that the protest is "not about salary"? The salary of OCAP and a load of other things that would go under the salary heading are part of their demands... The demands were of course "not merely about salary" and Uncle Sibal being the smart guy he is, saw the danger. He quickly started shouting about it being "only about the salary" and he had a lot of willing people to do the shouting for him. It is all semantics and a game the lawyers play well. Please tell me how the IIT chaps can declare "not about salary", have the ministry fix Asst Prof at say, 20K and then start screaming that is not enough...

  15. harish said...

    @Abi: Sorry mate, I am not playing any games here. I am just stating facts as I see them -- you do not even have to agree that I am seeing them right. The IIT FAs did say "Alternatively, all Professors should have the same AGP". You have never acknowledged this in any of your posts. You have always insisted that they have only been interested about that Rs 500 and Rs 1500 and do not care about OCAP (may not be so drastic, but effectively this). You have in fact claimed that for that Rs 500/1500, they have sacrificed the OCAP. I did go through those memorandums and I did not find any evidence that supports this extreme view of yours.

    You did say that IIT FAs demands were moderate and I have acknowledged that. In fact, in an earlier post I was forced to remind you that you did say this -- you were at that time praising a hot air balloon, remember.

    "This is unlikely to make you change your mind about my bias" - well, all I can say is that it reminds me of a speech that keeps repeating "For Brutus is an honourable man" -- you screw the guy and keep repeating he is an honourable man. Bravo!!

    The critique will come... My dog requires a walk now.

  16. Abi said...

    @Harish: The next argument I was going to make to win you over was this: "Some of my best friends are IIT faculty members" ;-)

    Now I see that you have already invoked "For Brutus is an honourable man." What a bummer!

    I guess I should be thankful that in that comparison, I'm on the side of man who made that speech. Unfortunately, then, IIT FAs end up the same side as Brutus.

    And I thought I was being accused of an anti-IIT bias!

  17. harish said...

    @Abi: LOL. That is a good one :-)

  18. Anonymous said...

    Kapil Sibal: "The IIT system, the IIT faculty has not delivered as per our expectations in the last 30-40 years"

    Well, the political system has fared infinitely worse, so perhaps we should be having IAS officers on contract.

    Ministers have fared just as badly, so probably we should remove their ministerial privileges.

    Too bad Karan Thapar was merely sucking up to Sibal instead of making this an unbiased interview.

    **********************************

    By the way, someone should also point out to Kapil Sibal that the main focus of IITs is engineering; and that Nobel prizes are not awarded for engineering.

    By the way, a number of politicians the world over have been awarded Nobel peace prize. Has an Indian politician made that cut?

    Nah! You, Mr Sibal , and your ilk are an utter abomination who have failed the nation more than any other profession since Independence.

    ***********************************

    Kapil Sibal: Absolutely. If you find a Stephen Hawking, take him. If you find a C N R Rao, take him. I have no problem.

    How do you identify someone is as good as Stephen Hawking just at the end of his/her PhD? You probably cant.

    In other words, the OCAP position stays what it was, and everything else is an eyewash.

    *********************************

    I would have loved if the version of Karan Thapar that interviewed Arjun Singh turned up to interview Sibal.

  19. Anonymous said...

    > 10 per cent of the entries into faculty should be by way of contracts
    Another issue is 10% of new entrants over what time period ? If there are 10 openings every 5 years then 10% is 1 OCAP every 5 yr. So in effect you are placing 1 candidate under 3-yr probation/contract/extendedpostdoc.
    Can the rest of the 9 candidates (assuming there are no higher-level appointments) be non-OCAP with less than the stipulated experience ?

    In spite of this OCAP there will be regular postdocs appointments. So in away this 1 candidate will be on an extended postdoc as opposed to 1yr temp post-doc position. Not bad for for a fresh phd.
    As some commenters have noted it may hardly have any effect on science faculty appointments as opposed to enggr. fac which I suppose have greater no. of folks with 1yr or less experience.

  20. Ankur Kulkarni said...

    Abi,

    In one of your previous posts you said
    Potential as an independent researcher and as a teacher, academic orientation and maturity are the qualities one looks for in a fresh hire.
    While it is true that these qualities can be assessed better when the candidates have a longer track record (and work in different environments), an administrative focus on the number of post-doc years cannot be justified.


    Contrary to the above, the advantage of having the OCAP is that it allows the institute to fire those that are non-forming, or those that it suspects it made a mistake by hiring or those that are incompatible on grounds that were not revealed at the time of hiring.
    Now, Sibal said

    Absolutely, yes. Not only exceptional people, but people who have been taken on three-year-contract and who expect to be absorbed after three years; even their term can be reduced when the IIT Board says that look, here's a man who is exceptional, so let us waive the three-years (norm).

    So this implies that institutes also have the option of expediting the movement of an OCAP to a real-AP if they find that he is expected to become real-AP in 3 years anyway. With this, doesn't the OCAP actually give the institute both the hiring and firing flexibility it needs? In fact it is in line with what you said IIXs have been doing:
    The freedom to select candidates -- based primarily on their record, but with due consideration given to their experience -- is something IIXs have used judiciously. For example, it's exercised rarely in those disciplines where the applicant pool, on average, is more experienced.

    From the above, I don't think the introduction of an OCAP is such a bad thing. What needs to be done is that OCAPs need to be given all benefits of real APs (housing, grants etc). This too, according to what iitmsriram said on Prof Madras's blog, has been provided.

  21. Anonymous said...

    @ Anon above - "So in away this 1 candidate will be on an extended postdoc as opposed to 1yr temp post-doc position. Not bad for for a fresh phd. "

    Not bad? Let's see what you have over here... You are combining some features of post-doc -
    1. Non-permanent job
    2. Attached to a regular faculty for research work, i.e. having to work under guidance instead of doing independent research
    3. No start up grant
    4. Peanuts in the name of salary and other benefits

    with some features of faculty -
    1. Teaching (In all probability, much more teaching than usual)
    2. Administrative work (may be)

    with the result that the OCAP will -

    1. will not have sufficient time to do enough research due to the teaching load, and therefore his/her research output will be far less than a regular post-doc. Hence, after 3 years will be in a worse position for getting absorbed as a regular faculty as compared to other applicants with 3 yrs of *proper* post-doc experience.

    2. Result in in-breeding, which makes it tougher for the OCAP, should he be regularized, to get away from the shadow of his former post-doc advisor.

    In short, essentially his/her research career gets effectively crippled, and, is saddled with the possibility of having to look for a new job with very little productivity over last 3 years of his/her career.

    IMO, unless someone has some very pressing reasons to come back to India AND stay in academics, no good PhD student in their right minds will consider even applying for an OCAP position, at least in engineering departments.

    This position needs to die as quick a death as possible.

  22. Pratik Ray said...
    This comment has been removed by the author.
  23. Tarun said...

    At anon above (who started his reply with the phrase "@ Anon above")

    1. Why do you say that OCAP get peanuts in name of salary. Isn't 25,000 + various TA/DA much more than what a post-doc earns?

    2. Is there a regulation that OCAPs would necessarily have to work "under" a faculty? If not, then why do people keep mentioning this point.

  24. Ankur Kulkarni said...

    I think people are confusing the function of OCAPs with the earlier name (Lecturer-cum-post-doc) and confusing function of a lecturer-cum-post-doc to be the combination of the worst of {lecturer, post-doc}. More knowledgeable people than me on Prof Madras's blog have commented on the entire characteristics of the post. Please read that in detail to understand what the position is about. The MHRD notifications (with earlier name, with the new name) say nothing about OCAP being under a any supervisor or that he will be given lesser than usual teaching load or about how he will be evaluated.

    Just a request from my side: please do not form opinions so early, particularly when the issue is in flux and full details are not known. Impressions formed now may persist even after reality is later revealed to be different from the first impressions. This may particularly be true if you are of the bent of mind that assumes the worst about the govt every time a controversy emerges. Discussion and argumentation based incorrect or incomplete information helps no one.

  25. Ankur Kulkarni said...

    I am taking the liberty to copy-paste iitmsriram's comment from
    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6061089355607754501&postID=1951783145718458049

    iitmsriram says that he was representing IITM before the Mehta committee and I find him most knowledgeable amongst all those who have attempted to interpret the pay rules.
    ---


    Dear Anon European PhD,

    There is little difference between an assistant professor on contract and a 'regular' assistant professor; the contract position carries all privileges except permanency. Heck, the director is actually director-on-contract! The two are like tenure track and tenured appointments. The apprehension stems from the fact that IIX's had not so far had significant contract appointments and now it will become a regular (perhaps normal) entry mode. It is not like there are no contract appointees now - some 5% or so are contract appointees even now. Yes, the selection committee can decide whether to offer a regular or contract position, but if the eligibility requirements for a regular position are not met, they can offer only a contract position. Here is a breakup of the entry level pay details as of now.

    Assistant professor on contract: eligibility - fresh PhD, no experience required. Minimum pay 20140 pay + 6000 grade pay = 26140 basic (selection committee can up this by upto 23380 + 6000); dearness allowance @27% = 7058, transport allowance in metros = 3200 + da = 4064, giving gross = 37262.

    With one year post-doctoral experience (either on this job or from prior service), the above contractual appointment will yield a higher salary from 7000 grade pay and increments given for the prior service. As an example, with one year experience, the pay becomes 20140 + one increment at 3% + 7000 = 27790 + 27% da = 7503 + same transport allowance = 39357.

    With three years experience (not necessarily post-phd; it could be work experience one got by working before going to grad school to pick up the phd), one is eligible for regular (permanent) assistant professor appointment. Minimum pay for this is pay 30000 + grade pay 8000 = 38000 basic; da at 27% = 10260, transport allowance = 4064 giving gross = 52324.

    If one lives off campus, there will be 30% of basic given as house rent allowance; if one is actually paying rent, part of this allowance may be tax free depending on some other conditions.

    Yes, you could take up some of the issues with your prospective dean of faculty and/or hod at the time of applying or even at the time of interview. Both the dean and hod will be on the selection panel.

    I hope I have answered the questions in an understandable manner.

  26. Anonymous said...

    No IIT faculty should ever have engaged any Indian politician in any interaction. They will inevitably get all muddy and the pig will love it. Can you imagine an Indian politician accusing IIT profs of "not delivering"? The game was lost as soon as IIT profs allowed themselves to get into a position when Sibal could even utter this! IIT profs should not petition Indian ministers even if their lives is at stake. And this is a small matter of some piddling amount of money.

  27. Anonymous said...

    Mr. Sibal thinks he is a genius. he talks crap a manipulator wat ever u can call him I dont know why always HRD ministry is headed by such dreaded people Its just insane I would put the blame solely on IIT directors who are just trying to save their face and acting like muppets. The most comedy part was that of that old ugly looking IIT Delhi prof who said that those who want higher salaries can leave the country. He should be immediately be deported to China. Its absolute nonsense everyone in this country wants to become a newsmaker. I would like to ask that professor one question? If at all these striking profs become successful will he reject the higher pay? What I see here is similar to West Indies cricket team people like Gayle, Sarwan have put their careers on line to do good for everyone and some 14 buggers turn up and betray them The only motive is the oppurtunity to make news be in the news Lets not get into media coverage which has been absolutely pathetic Their discussions are biased and seems like they are reharsed trying to create that people are after money Getting sick of this society After all wat my friend says is true Society is a b**** and needs to be **** hard

  28. Anonymous said...

    From what I hear, an IIT CS grad with a masters from US could earn at least 2 lacs a month in india. Assuming a pay of 50 k or so after a PhD for an assistant professor, means that an industry position pays four times more. In the US very rarely can you ever get a 4X salary.

    If you are willing to accept that some of the IIT under graduates are intelligent and India wants to attract CS (CS as an ex since high paying jobs in industry exist) PhDs particularly from the west it is in her interest to pay these people more.

  29. Ankur Kulkarni said...

    @anonymous at 11.15

    Yours is the funniest post I have read in this whole saga.

  30. Anonymous said...

    @anon at 11:21

    Prof. Madras in his blog discusses what you have mentioned and argues why the wages can not be much more.

    http://giridharmadras.blogspot.com

  31. Ronnie Coleman said...

    @anon at 11:21, you forgot to add housing and some other perks, which significantly adds to the salary.

  32. pradeepkumar said...

    Kapil Sibals hidden agenda can be found @

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/Politics/Nation/Sibal-eyes-tie-ups-with-leading-global-universities/articleshow/5066504.cms

    200 Foreign Universities are waiting to set up their shops. Where will they get their faculty members? Join as OCAP in IIT or as AP @ MIT India?

  33. Anonymous said...

    Thanks for pointing out Prof Madras's post.

    Assuming housing and other perks add 20k a month, it is still nowwhere what a govt job pays (70k vs 2 lacs). I know its unfair to compare between academia and industry (with the extra stress and all in the latter). The point I am making is if you were to compare the CS faculties (again CS as an example) across IITs and god forbid institutions lower down the ladder, the qualification of the faculties and their research productivity is not in the top tier.

    There has to be an active effort to attract better people. Unfortunately the argument of this is what we will offer, come if you want to otherwise f** off is not going to work ! Some of the engineering depts have to be treated differently.