tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post5153826232960924243..comments2024-03-20T13:10:11.477+05:30Comments on nanopolitan: OCAP salary at IIT-Guwahati: Gautam Barua respondsAbihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06790560045313883673noreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-22994131042028210882009-10-20T01:05:40.517+05:302009-10-20T01:05:40.517+05:30I am really enjoying this blog which as a forum...I am really enjoying this blog which as a forum has brought forward many perspectives in the IIT system as a whole and its loopholes. In response to Anonymous@ Monday, October 19, 2009 12:33:00 PM comment:<br /><br />"Design is a typical department.Its case can't be compared with others.Not many Ph.Ds are available. As you have to run the department, you need to recruit people having good expertise in some areas of designs. Even in IIT-Delhi, a person with a simple M.Sc. degree was a Professor (now Emeritus).However it is a different issue that he subsequently got Bhatnagar Award."<br /><br />I have the following to say:<br />Does it mean that one should run a department in IIT simply “for the sake of running it”? What is so typical or extraordinary of this department that sets it apart from the other Engineering/Science departments of IITs? Why is it not comparable to other departments? Remember there are several cases in IITKGP and IITB where faculty members (of course possessing PhD degrees) had to retire as Assistant Professors for not being able to satisfy the criteria of becoming Associate Professors and Professors (like having x number of publications and producing y number of PhDs etc) and who were otherwise very brilliant academically and excellent teachers. Since pay structure is uniform in all IITs, there should not be any non-uniformity in the yardsticks of getting promoted. If departments where one can become a professor without having a PhD and enjoy all the perks associated with the professorship and still such department's case cannot be compared with other departments, there is no point keeping their salary structure at par with other departments. Otherwise they should be dumped into the university system where one has to just bite his/her time to get time-bound promotions. As rightly pointed out by Anonymous@ Friday, October 16, 2009 10:54:00 PM, this is clearly a case of sheer discrepancy and discrimination. It is high time MHRD looks into issues like this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-50625017529341504892009-10-19T12:33:18.156+05:302009-10-19T12:33:18.156+05:30Design is a typical department.Its case can't ...Design is a typical department.Its case can't be compared with others.Not many Ph.Ds are available. As you have to run the department, you need to recruit people having good expertise in some areas of designs. Even in IIT-Delhi, a person with a simple M.Sc. degree was a Professor (now Emeritus).However it is a different issue that he subsequently got Bhatnagar Award.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-49389917515708346242009-10-19T07:35:04.072+05:302009-10-19T07:35:04.072+05:30Thanks for sharing the experience. Let's write...Thanks for sharing the experience. Let's write more to bring the actual facts to everyone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-86977894424284054472009-10-16T22:54:26.866+05:302009-10-16T22:54:26.866+05:30IITG is the only IIT where one can become a Profes...IITG is the only IIT where one can become a Professor (without a PhD) and then do a PhD under a colleague who is an Associate Professor. This has happened in the Design department of IITG. In fact one of these Professors was so ashamed that he did not receive the degree at the convocation because he was on the dais along with other Professors as a part of the Senate. OCAP however requires that one be a PhD and then have three years experience before being a permanent Assistant Professor. Design department at IITG always recruits people without PhD. While in other departments you have to work your butt off, in the design department all you need is make a rickshaw or paint a picture to be a Professor. The worst part is while these people join after some degree in Painting/Rickshaw design; their counterparts in engineering and science are slogging it out to earn a PhD. By the time these people have completed their PhD in five years, the guys in Design is happily promoted to Professorship without a PhD and makes more than twice the money of the engineering/science PhD, who can at best hope to be an OCAP with three years of his life at the mercy of some HOD. Why this discrimination???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-91242112944176002052009-10-15T12:29:37.950+05:302009-10-15T12:29:37.950+05:30I think it’s a nice forum to discuss some HOT issu...I think it’s a nice forum to discuss some HOT issues, especially, when one IIT Director is actively replying. I really appreciate it for sparing his valuable time. I would like to divide my comments into two parts:<br />Firstly, Faculty recruitment:<br />Here, I would like to refer Prof. Barua’s comment: “Our selection process is one of the most liberal (being a relatively new IIT, this should be obvious) ………” In this regard one anonymous reader (Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:41:00 AM ) make very nice comments. I would like to congratulate to bring this issue. I feel this kind of recruitment is shame for the country. Where HOD is a candidate for the Professor post, so he will try to promote the panel member’s students as a faculty of the department. No need to see whether the department is going to hail. As a result, anyone can see the faculty profile of IITG chemical engineering Dept as an example. B. Tech second class candidate was chosen in absentia, that even in Chemical engineering. I feel in our country we don’t have that acute shortage of qualified candidate. I know someone; he applied in IITG after doing Ph.D from a top level IIT and postdoc with some good publications. Fortunately he was not shortlisted at that time. After that seeing all these things, whenever I need a good laugh I see IITG chemical engineering website. Before claimming the fair recruitment by the Director he should see what politics the departments are doing. Again from a recent comment I really surprise to see someone has commented (Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:56:00 PM) what to do with first class or second class in research? I am more than 100% sure that fellow is not that exceptional in research so, he was selected. That we can easily check within 5 minutes. In this regard, the memorandum submitted by the IIT federation to MHRD for better pay there it is mentioned “Especially at the entry level, we need to compete globally” to justify the requirement of better pay. This kind of statements is what extent fake that also proofs very well. Again, I apologized for my statement because there are many very knowledgeable and strong background faculties are there in the old IITs, it is true for them. I don’t want to hurt them. Similar thing is going on in many other IITs but IITG matter probably came to our knowledge. Another issue also new regarding the recruitment in new IITs all mentoring IIT are trying pushes their candidates. As an example, IIT patna, we have taken the statics and found 25% from IITG (from mentor), another 25% from IITKGP (may be mentor’s mentor or majority of IITG faculty from IITKGP that yet to be analyzed). IIT Gandhinagar Chemical Engg Dept: ~ 100% from (IITB, mentor) and overall ~ 44%. The directors of all IITs, Mr. Kapil Sibal, and all the academicians please see what’s going on!!!!!! Many more are there we don’t have time to analyze more or lack of information. Have a good laugh.<br />Secondly, VI th Pay scale:<br />I think during past one year majority of IIT faculty (also in other institutions) are most of the time discussing about this topic. Definitely it will affect the productivity of the country. I don’t think IITs faculties have discussed so seriously ever about how to increase the research productivity. Secondly, why there should not be performance based salary instead of brand name wise? Because, there is a wide variation in quality in a group of particular brand name. The Govt. should realize that new IITs cannot be up to the standard of old IITs, whereas many universities and NITs are maintaining a better standard than those. All over India there should be performance based salary. Then only productivity will increase. Please maintain the standard, do fair recruitment, and then ask for salary. All institute need to attract good faculty in the entry level, not only IITs. Better autonomy should not be misused for recruitment as mentioned above. In this regard, Prof. Ahuja has written a nice article here: http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/areprofessors-atiits/iims-underpaid/23/35/371658/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-15883230715631320492009-10-15T11:43:06.298+05:302009-10-15T11:43:06.298+05:30Hi iitmsriram,
I am a fresh Phd. I dont want stay...Hi iitmsriram,<br /><br />I am a fresh Phd. I dont want stay for any longer in the US to do a postdoc or something for personal reasons. What are my best options? <br /><br />Apply to an IIT for an OCAP<br />or join a national lab like NCL or NPL under some fellowship program. I would like to see myself as a faculty in IISc down the line. I came know that IISc doesn't take fresh Phds. What do you think are my best options to go where I want to go since I am absolutely not interested in continuing in the west? Please give ur opinion. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-37493362671239910542009-10-15T10:31:18.650+05:302009-10-15T10:31:18.650+05:30Come on folks, lets not see too much into what a w...Come on folks, lets not see too much into what a web page says. I am also listed as a faculty member at IITH; I teach classes there but hold no appointment or post there. This type of arrangement was all that was there last year. There is a spectrum of how this is working in the new IITs. IIT Rajastan and IIT Mandi are running out of IITK and IITR campuses. IITH has its own temporary campus in Hyderabad but is having its own faculty members (14, the website says) only this year. Some IITM faculty members are stationed full time in IITH, some spend half the week there, some go for one day a week, some go once a month, some make just one trip per semester. There is also a mix of how the salaries are drawn (100% IITH to 100% IITM with some drawing additional per-lecture payments). These details are worked out by the individual faculty members (isn't that what mentoring is about?) and I dont think it is possible or even reasonable to put this level of information on the web site. Besides, most 'visiting' faculty members are concerned with having the programs running and dont spend much time worrying about where the pay bill is drawn. In a year or two, things will settle down and IITH will have its own full complement of faculty members. Whats the big deal?iitmsriramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16063826764366606345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-48678794077852047842009-10-15T09:29:06.294+05:302009-10-15T09:29:06.294+05:30Better write to them, explain how it can mislead p...Better write to them, explain how it can mislead people and request for correction. I am sure they will respond positively.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-4445647617354086782009-10-15T08:20:48.966+05:302009-10-15T08:20:48.966+05:30Is this a child play ? One day you are showing som...Is this a child play ? One day you are showing some faculties as regular and after few days you will show them as visiting!!! @anon 7:50am, Do you know it an official web site of IITH and how you can play on an official web site.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-63688029675403219612009-10-15T07:50:22.490+05:302009-10-15T07:50:22.490+05:30@anon above
IITH is new and being mentored by IIT...@anon above<br /><br />IITH is new and being mentored by IITM. IITH is taking baby steps. Let's be considerate.<br /><br />The website seems to be undergoing frequent changes. Perhaps, they will again be listed as visiting faculty after a few days, when a good number of new faculty join.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-39117184816572981892009-10-15T06:38:17.666+05:302009-10-15T06:38:17.666+05:30@anon 4:06am
But in fact they are misleading and...@anon 4:06am <br /><br />But in fact they are misleading and confusing people by showing them (visiting faculty) as a regular faculties. I do not understand why they are not showing them as visiting faculties. As a matter of fact all these (regular faculties) were visiting faculties few days back and they have recently updated their faculty page and showing them as regular faculty!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-32350380687523394352009-10-15T05:20:04.319+05:302009-10-15T05:20:04.319+05:30@anon 2:46 AM
You can check the email address of ...@anon 2:46 AM<br /><br />You can check the email address of the faculty to know whether they work at iith or iitm.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-73461347365490504582009-10-15T04:06:00.421+05:302009-10-15T04:06:00.421+05:30I think till IITH recruits enough permanent facult...I think till IITH recruits enough permanent faculty, IITM faculty will be teaching at IITH as well. They are probably not listed as visiting faculty because that has a slightly different meaning and they do not want to confuse people.<br /><br />When someone says 'web page' not updated, they typically mean that 'all the info on that web page is not up-to-date'...but some info may be up-to-date.<br /><br />Yeah IITH is updating its webpage frequently but they link to faculty web pages which are not updated frequently.<br /><br />BTW: One quick way (not a bullet proof) way of checking the last time a web page was updated is to go to the address bar and type javascript:alert(document.lastModified). There are several caveats though and are beyond the scope of this discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-23741018516716062402009-10-15T02:46:47.020+05:302009-10-15T02:46:47.020+05:30iitsriram
I have seen from IITH web page that mos...iitsriram<br /><br />I have seen from IITH web page that most of the professors are from IITM. How come these professor are working at two places!!! both the web pages (IITM and IITH) are showing most the faculties as their permanent faculty (not visiting faculty). Do not say web page is not updated!! in fact IITH is daily updating their web page. I want to ask one question why most of the faculty member in IITH are from IITM. Is IITH recruiting only IITM professors? or there is some hidden reservation or some hidden regionalism?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-219643847716839442009-10-14T22:31:24.015+05:302009-10-14T22:31:24.015+05:30Purab,
You make a very good point above. I have f...Purab,<br /><br />You make a very good point above. I have found the web-pages of faculty at various IIXs to be very outdated. I know that several of them are extremely busy, but it makes sense to keep updating from time to time to keep things updated, specially with regards to publications.<br /><br />That said, I agree with Prof. Sriram that finding PhD students can be a big challenge in certain departments, and I think he was just trying to make a point about what is needed to promote faculty.<br /><br />Prof. Sriram, your efforts to help prospective faculty through various posts is highly appreciated. Please keep them coming.<br /><br />BalakrishnanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-39886368296521680052009-10-14T17:40:22.567+05:302009-10-14T17:40:22.567+05:30I think the follow up comments from Prof. Sriram c...I think the follow up comments from Prof. Sriram clears some of the air around the comment "I have not graduated ..." to which prospective faculty members like Prasanth objected to. At least, that is the gain in this part of the debate that is generating more heat than light.<br /><br />I have absolutely no issues if called dumb etc. as long as people stick to the point. <br /><br />On Prof. Sriram's comment : "I am not hurt, but insulted; you seem to believe that you can evaluate me and even pass professional judgement by looking ONLY at what is in the IITM website. Does it occur to you that the website may not have all the information? In which case, would a retraction be in order?"<br /><br />In that case, I would surely love to retract and be educated. I always like to believe that the IIT is the best. I offer my apology in advance. However, can I not wish people who speak for IITs in different forums specially to incumbent faculty members keep their IIT space in order/adequtely populated not to cause confusions, more so if heads the admin.,acad. body and has the executive power and cannot blame another person for that? <br /><br />PurabAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-91196247815816123582009-10-14T16:45:08.202+05:302009-10-14T16:45:08.202+05:30Purab,
Did it not occur to you that it would have...Purab,<br /><br />Did it not occur to you that it would have been hard to find PhD students in Aerospace Engineering? Did it not occur to you that websites can be outdated?<br /><br />Based on this incident where you showed lack of judgement, shall I conclude that Purab (ex-IIT student) is a dumb person but assure all other prospective IIT students that Purab is an exception and not the norm?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-13133981061707154222009-10-14T12:58:33.423+05:302009-10-14T12:58:33.423+05:30Prasanth,
I mentioned about PhD production only t...Prasanth,<br /><br />I mentioned about PhD production only to emphasize the point that the selection (promotion) committee looks at many factors and PhD production is just one parameter; we are getting lots of good applicants for PhD now for the last 5 years or so, but for a period of about 5-6 years before that, my entire department was admitting only 2-3 PhD scholars per year. Divide that by the number of faculty and you can see there will be a problem. Such a situation is unlikely to repeat because of the large number of colleges out there now and the resulting size of the viable candidate pool. Most of the young faculty who joined IIX in the last 5 years are doing well and <b>THAT</b> is the rule, not the exception. There is lot more funding out there and also lot more 'good' calibre PhD applicants.iitmsriramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16063826764366606345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-55677974698988584102009-10-14T12:22:56.240+05:302009-10-14T12:22:56.240+05:30I find webpages of professors at prestigious insti...I find webpages of professors at prestigious institutes like MIT have not been updated for years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-7572676257589381992009-10-14T12:08:13.470+05:302009-10-14T12:08:13.470+05:30Purab,
You write "It further scares people t...Purab,<br /><br />You write "It further scares people to find out what actually is required in IITs to become a Professor! As an ex-IIT student,I must say that IIT system is certainly not proud of your such achievement! I believe that no other IIT has a person in Professor position (and also HOD) with such credentials."<br /><br />I am not hurt, but insulted; you seem to believe that you can evaluate me and even pass professional judgement by looking ONLY at what is in the IITM website. Does it occur to you that the website may not have all the information? In which case, would a retraction be in order?iitmsriramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16063826764366606345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-19278146403293279442009-10-14T08:57:01.133+05:302009-10-14T08:57:01.133+05:30@iitmsriram
"I have not graduated a single Ph...@iitmsriram<br />"I have not graduated a single PhD to date - and I not only became associate prof, but became prof and even HoD."<br /><br />I completely agree with Prasanth. "But not getting a single phd student graduated is not the good advertisement either." Your bold statement made me curious enough to go thro' your profile at IITM website. It further scares people to find out what actually is required in IITs to become a Professor! As an ex-IIT student,I must say that IIT system is certainly not proud of your such achievement! I believe that no other IIT has a person in Professor position (and also HOD) with such credentials. <br /><br />This is not to hurt any individual. The debate addresses much greater issue. I request prospective candidates not to take this part of iitmsriram's comment seriously. IITs are fairly competitive and achievements are recognized fair and square. Here and there some such things may happen (People who matter know for what reason) but please do not generalize it. It won't happen to other IITs or every individual. You please look at the profiles of people in Professor position at other IITs. Do your own bit of research and confirm a point.<br /><br />My own humble observation is that iit as a whole offers a great experience, - may not be the best in each individual part but no inferior when you take it as a whole.<br /><br />PurabAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-40502984188765964492009-10-14T02:14:25.253+05:302009-10-14T02:14:25.253+05:30Just to say Sorry abi, i have probably hacked this...Just to say Sorry abi, i have probably hacked this thread..most of the questions or discussion are not related to the topic of this thread. <br />-PrasanthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-55118231194481482582009-10-14T02:11:51.496+05:302009-10-14T02:11:51.496+05:30Thanks Prof. sriram for your reply.
I am not too ...Thanks Prof. sriram for your reply. <br />I am not too much concerned about the increments or promotion to the Asso prof. But not getting a single phd student graduated is not the good advertisement either. If i am not getting too much personal or if you have any problem in answering this, its fine, if you can please let us know what are the difficulties you have faced or why do you think your stdnt have not graduated yet. So is it the reason that it takes long time to set up your lab or quality of the students or administrative difficulties.<br /><br />It creates more confusions now. we are mentally prepared that it will take 2-3 yrs to get our lab ready etc. But even after 2-3 yrs if we (me and my would be phd stdnt) can not get a single publication or exciting result or better to say that if we are not in a situation to carry out our planned experiment even after 2-3 years because of the lack of lab-space or even lack of stdnt, then its going to be a nightmare. Because science is changing so fast now if i have to wait for 3 yrs to get any experiment done, i will be scratching my head to catch up the world..in other ways it portraits that you cannot do cutting edge research in india..<br />Personally i am inspired to by some young profs who joined IIX in the last 5 yrs doing very well and publishing good papers (means with good citations). But if those are the only exceptional cases or they have been just lucky to have good HOD/stdnt/vacant lab-space..then its very much discouraging..<br />I wish thats not true..<br /><br />Anyways on another note, i just got to know from on of my b.tech friend who attended Pan-IIT in Chicago, that IIT profs got the message from the prospective faculty candidates that OCAP is a crap deal and nobody will join as AP until and unless they get the offer as permanent AP. So if IITs wants their own students (so-called reverse brain-drain) to return they know by now what they need to offer. <br /><br />-PrasanthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-35968195611106344962009-10-13T22:49:40.845+05:302009-10-13T22:49:40.845+05:30Barua an Jain,
Do u guys mean to say that at 1.1....Barua an Jain,<br /><br />Do u guys mean to say that at 1.1.2009, all the assistant professors joined before 1.1.2006 will get same salary (i.e. basic of 37400 and AGP of 9000) irrespective of number of years they have put in.<br /><br />Because at 1.1.2006, guys loose 8 increments only. However, on 1.1.2009, as no assistant professor crosses basic of 37400, they will loose all the increments.<br /><br />On 1.1.2009, a 2005 guy will get the same salary to 1985 guy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-19522575568266220192009-10-13T21:06:20.737+05:302009-10-13T21:06:20.737+05:30@SK Jain
But UGC/NIT assistant professors who hav...@SK Jain<br /><br />But UGC/NIT assistant professors who have more than 3 years' experience as on 1.1.2006 will be placed in PB4 from that day itself. Do u mean to say that IIT assistant professor will get less than his/her UGC/NIT counterpart?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com