tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post3909439282165199693..comments2024-03-20T13:10:11.477+05:30Comments on nanopolitan: JEE's bias against womenAbihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06790560045313883673noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-23988984020605720482014-09-09T18:07:09.160+05:302014-09-09T18:07:09.160+05:30If you change JEE, the coaching classes will anywa...If you change JEE, the coaching classes will anyway blend themselves so as to train their students in the best possible way. I do not think changing anything about JEE can affect the gender ratio. I completely agree with you that it is very difficult to get through JEE without coaching, but as Rahul said, I don't think it is a must. <br />I have taken coaching from Kota, and was AIR 99, plus I am sure that I couldn't have even cracked JEE if I hadn't opted for coaching classes. But it was because of the study environment. It is because I was sent out of house, which is a very rare scenario for a girl in India.<br />Hence I clearly support Vivek's thoughts.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04521749014078663549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-44902609324329528622010-05-21T19:00:43.779+05:302010-05-21T19:00:43.779+05:30hey....ive read most of thes pts....
1. Callng an...hey....ive read most of thes pts....<br /><br />1. Callng an exam biasd is rediculous....reducing its difficulty will create problems...like if u used board marks 2 decide who gets into iits, can u really say a guy wth 99.5 is bettr than som 1 with 99.4??<br /><br />2. Boards r very different from jee....boards r subjective so things like neatness, handwriting, organization, prettiness com into consideration....girls tend 2 b bettr than boys at ths(at least during school age).....jee is objective so girls lose ths advantage....dont get me wrong i dont mean girls r dumb, just tht board results do not necessarily mean girls r smartr....<br /><br />3. Also ive read tht boys tend 2be bettr at maths n girls tend 2be bettr at languages....this is not a myth but based on studies....<br /><br />4. Although girls tend 2 beat boys at boards.,, this is only considerng th overall %... I wondr if ths still holds true when considering only maths n scienceUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01568167264603172415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-28986893364986520212009-05-26T12:14:49.665+05:302009-05-26T12:14:49.665+05:30AIIMS has around 20% girls in its undergrad course...AIIMS has around 20% girls in its undergrad course, and this has remained stable over decades. <br />this is in spite of the fact that there are lots more female aspirants for medicine than for engineering.<br />same story for jipmer and other elite medical colleges.Ananthnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-59768469839893737662008-08-02T23:31:00.000+05:302008-08-02T23:31:00.000+05:30From an IITian(read "prize" receiver ...From an IITian(read "prize" receiver<BR/> To Abi,<BR/><BR/> You wanna know how to get it girls. Very simple. Do it the Classic way. Like it has been done time and again. <BR/>Check the latest Census data for the percentage of women in India. Then ask the HRD ministry to order the IITs to implement the Reservation of girls equal to the percentage found. Then Mr. Narayan Murthy calls a meeting with other IIT directors and calls the "order" <BR/>imposible to implement. 2 days later all the IIT directors,issue in famous newspapers, an apology for their "harsh statements" and announce implementation of the Reservation from next year's batch. However they wud always consider that the ones who passed exams meritoriously shud not suffer. So the seats wud be accordingly increased to around "double". Ain't it that simple.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-29475765839567611612008-07-02T15:27:00.000+05:302008-07-02T15:27:00.000+05:30Your post completely ignores the lower percentage ...Your post completely ignores the lower percentage of female students taking the JEE. In 1993, the year that I got into JEE, about 88000 students took the exam, out of which only 8000 were women! Not surprisingly, women only constituted 10% of the incoming class. <BR/><BR/>The reasons for this are largely sociological - I know many Indian parents who love their daughters, but think that it will be harder for their 17-year old daughters to survive on a remote campus in another city. How likely is it that a father in Vishakapatnam will want to send his daughter to IIT Guwahati?<BR/><BR/>For the record, I am female, scored in the top 100 in JEE and still think it is the best entrance exam in Asia. No need to tinker with the JEE, we women are just as smart and competent as the men thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-56233480209784537992008-06-17T15:16:00.000+05:302008-06-17T15:16:00.000+05:30In India for everything we cant do, we can blame s...In India for everything we cant do, we can blame something, someone, even the stars. So that lady's rantings have to be ignored. It is a fact that Women have a less developed logical reasoning while their intuitive skills are better than men. Refer Carl Sagan. Explains why they dont feature more in IITs where logical reasoning is the basis. As an alumini of IIT Madras of 85 batch, we had 6 girls in our class. In fact the previous batch if I remember right had just 3. If that has not improved, some amount of blame is to do with gender bias in our society, no doubt. Parents probably yet pamper their boys then their girls. Pitiably though this cant be the reason for a 6 girls in my batch of about 225 that is about 3%. Truth is women are not the best in Engineering on the average and most men cant be good Nurses. I am not gender phobic but well we are good at somethings only. So dont blame JEE. Even though JEE has been diluted terribly, I did have a look at the 2008 paper, it is a shame one can get in by doing DIP DIP DIP, or choosing arbitrary answere in a to d choices. In my times there used to be really tough questions in Physics and Maths. Yet JEE stands out compared to other exams. Other exams test the knowledge from the limited books the student studies. So dont compare ICSE or CBSE or state boards with JEE. JEE tests applicability and intelligence. <BR/>My son who studies standard 4 does just very good in NSTSE a science test conducted in schools. While he managed say 82 there are those who take Guru.com get 88 or 92 in his school. At the same time when he takes a McMillan test where there can be no coaching or where it is intelligence that is tested he gets 99 percentile. JEE is like McMillan. Even with IITs having to give multiple answer dip dip questions, because of outside pressure, they yet make is much more difficult than useless board exams. So if you want to compare JEE with boards, then that lady who said it can go and compare her brains with that of a donkey and hope I am not insulting the donkey.<BR/>Forget feminism and all such crap. JEE is THE BEST exam one can write in the world. Even if I can afford to relocate to US, I will yet want to give my son a shot at JEE. I have not come across any better exam all my life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-7923909881251335212007-05-02T10:40:00.000+05:302007-05-02T10:40:00.000+05:30It is an interesting article. I do not think there...It is an interesting article. I do not think there is any bias in JEE against girls. I myself went to IIT many years ago. I think you also want to get statistics about how many of the girls who do so well in X and XII standards take up the JEE exam in the first place. The percentage of boys taking the JEE exam should be much much more than girls. My daughter didn't take up JEE because I am not ready to see her move away from home so early. This is the common (probably Indian) sentiment that anyway in a few years she will get married and move away so why shorten that period even more? Whether she would have made it to IIT is another point altogether. I feel if there was an IIT in every reasonablt big city and if day scholars were encouraged, then we will see more and more girls trying for, and getting into IITs<BR/>- SudheerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-85985559809258205292007-04-30T18:35:00.000+05:302007-04-30T18:35:00.000+05:30Dr. Bruno says, What I am trying to tell is that t...Dr. Bruno says, <I>What I am trying to tell is that there is an natural inclination for girls to score well in MEMORY based exams and BOYS in Application based Exams.</I><BR/><BR/>That is pithalaattam of the worst sort. There is absolutely no science to back any such conclusion.<BR/><BR/>Abi's stirred a hornet's nest, in the process revealing his and his admirers' biases. Abi, as a man of learning pleese try to do only one thing about htis issue. Simply ensure that there is no discrimination of opportunity wrt women in engineering.<BR/><BR/>It is amusing to see the good professor and his minions talking in terms of girls and boys! for heaven's sake they are grown-ups men and women - most certainly not girls and boys!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-72371562261060339352007-04-29T17:44:00.000+05:302007-04-29T17:44:00.000+05:30//This isa very important consideration for many p...//This is<BR/>a very important consideration for many parents who are not keen on letting their daughters to stay in hostels at that age. I think this attitude is still widespread even now.<BR/>- Gopal//<BR/><BR/>I think this is also an important factor..... Many would prefer their girl to study in the near by Engineering College rather than IIT....<BR/><BR/>I know that this may sound absurd, but look this from the perspective of a parent who did his college in 1970s and not from your point of viewDoctor Brunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04718690205239520878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-71547496918312459812007-04-29T16:19:00.000+05:302007-04-29T16:19:00.000+05:30Sudeep's arguments are excellent and logical.I wen...Sudeep's arguments are excellent and logical.<BR/><BR/>I went to various engineering schools -- including IITs -- to recruit new hires for my employer(s). My observation: The proportion of women in a class is abysmally low in discplines like mechanical engineering, and relatively high in computer science and communications engineering. Which seems to point to me that there's merit to the argument that engineering is (still) perceived as basically a male vocation. Disciplines that promise desk jobs, like computers-based ones, do score well with girls.<BR/><BR/>While on the subject: those who regularly read Communications of ACM will notice a refrain that has been going on in its pages for quite a long while now: that the number of female applicants to Computer Science courses in US universities is very low and is *further declining*. Can anybody explain this? Are CS departments of US varsities biased against women?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-1663370929848629672007-04-29T12:50:00.000+05:302007-04-29T12:50:00.000+05:30No one in this discussion has brought up an import...No one in this discussion has brought up an important feature of IITs/NITs... they are completely residential institutions where everyone has to stay in hostels soon after their schooling. This is<BR/>a very important consideration for many parents who are not keen on letting their daughters to stay in hostels at that age. I think this attitude is still widespread even now.<BR/>- GopalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-12372584157707291802007-04-28T18:43:00.000+05:302007-04-28T18:43:00.000+05:30It is difficult to prove a biasas perceptions vary...It is difficult to prove a bias<BR/>as perceptions vary.One can at best present a hypothesis.Is this a problem unique to India.Perhaps no.I have noticed that the IT<BR/>industry employs many girls<BR/>with B.E/B.Tech.Perhaps the<BR/>software/ITES boom has ensured<BR/>more job opportunities to women<BR/>than any other sector. So if we take the overall ratio the picture<BR/>may be different.We need affirmative action plans<BR/>that take into account gender<BR/>bias and under-representation<BR/>of women in some fields and<BR/>institutions.Instead we have<BR/>a caste based quota.Institutions<BR/>like IITs,IIMs can take a conscious<BR/>decision to attract more women in<BR/>their programs.Women may or may not<BR/>need reservations but they will need some programs/incentives so that they can participate more in some fields.We need more studies on reasons to find out why<BR/>women's participation in science<BR/>and engineering in India is low.<BR/>I think INSA commissioned such a<BR/>study some years ago.Social Studies<BR/>of Science had published an article<BR/>on women and science in India some<BR/>years ago.ரவி ஸ்ரீநிவாஸ்https://www.blogger.com/profile/10176389904737294055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-19316560696073448652007-04-28T18:27:00.000+05:302007-04-28T18:27:00.000+05:30Something about Tamil Nadu Scenario... This may no...Something about Tamil Nadu Scenario... This may not be related to the debate, but I want to record my comments...<BR/><BR/>This year there is going to be NO Entrance Exams in Tamil Nadu for MBBS Admission<BR/><BR/>You will see that there is atleast 70 % of girls in the allotment list<BR/><BR/>And then, Not even 50 Students from Rural Areas will be getting seats (as Entrances are removed)<BR/><BR/>This may sound funny, but the truth is that the Amount of Coaching needed (read as money spent) for Entrance Exams is just 10 % of the Coaching (read money spent) that is being given for Board Exams to enable the candidate get centum.<BR/><BR/>Hence, Rural Students will be at a great disadvantage because of Cancellation of Entrance Exams....<BR/><BR/>After seeing the pathetic result of the regulation, they will bring back the entrance in few years.. !!!Doctor Brunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04718690205239520878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-66899623876526367722007-04-28T18:24:00.000+05:302007-04-28T18:24:00.000+05:30//i can tell you the ratio in aiims, it is 10-14 g...//i can tell you the ratio in aiims, it is 10-14 girls in a batch of 50, ie 20-30%. it is much higher(50% or above) in the university med colleges, but most of them have some sort of reservation for girls.I have no idea about jipmer.//<BR/><BR/>There is NO reservation for girls in MBBS Admissions. Reservation for girls are there in Government Job (after MBBS) in Tamil Nadu. I have no idea about other states<BR/><BR/>No reservation for Girls in JIPMERDoctor Brunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04718690205239520878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-73708787844757378912007-04-28T18:22:00.000+05:302007-04-28T18:22:00.000+05:30//Bruno: Your points are interesting. However, wou...//Bruno: Your points are interesting. However, would you say that there is a good correlation between entrance exam marks and high school exam marks?//<BR/><BR/>What I am telling is the other way around. I am telling that though both the (same batch of) boys and girls attend the same "Extra Coaching" (read as Tuition / Special Classes) for Board Exams and the same Coaching Institute for Entrance Exams, the boys outperform girls in Entrance and girls out perform boys in Board Exams....<BR/><BR/>This I am telling from following the Education / Entrance scenario in Tamil Nadu.<BR/><BR/>What I am trying to tell is that there is an natural inclination for girls to score well in MEMORY based exams and BOYS in Application based Exams. <BR/><BR/>//Further, the TN entrance exams are just not in the same league as the JEE, Bruno. //<BR/>Agreed....<BR/>The papers may not be tough. But what about the Competetion Levels. You score Only One Question and you are out of the competetion. IIT-JEE has a tough question paper, but I feel the competetion is more intense in TN Entrance (inspite of the "Low" quality of questions) because the margin of error is very low<BR/><BR/>//95 % of the students may go to a coaching centre, but do you think it is really necessary for a bright, diligent student?//<BR/><BR/>Let me put it this way....<BR/>It (Coaching) is not necessary for a bright diligent student to score 99 %<BR/><BR/>But of the 3 lakhs odd students, 3000 (at least 1 %) are bright and diligent and can get 99% without Coaching. But they have only 1500 seats !!!!<BR/><BR/>Who among the 3000 gets this 1500 is decided more by the Coaching !!!!Doctor Brunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04718690205239520878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-13977525389679308072007-04-28T18:15:00.000+05:302007-04-28T18:15:00.000+05:30//(b) Coaching centres' practices. Boys can go to ...//(b) Coaching centres' practices. Boys can go to Kota and camp out there for a year (foregoing a year of college!); I can't imagine parents sending their girls there for such a long period. Also (as AS observed in his/her comment), coaching centres operate during ungodly hours (a centre in Mumbai even tried all-night coaching sessions!) This too puts girls at a disadvantage.//<BR/><BR/>I don't have any idea about Kota, but there is a Coaching Institute for PG Entrance at Kottayam. You just will not believe the number of girls from Tamil Nadu staying there for one full year (and then getting a good rank in PG Entrance)....<BR/><BR/>Similarly, if you see Speed, Positive or Lotus Fast Track, the number of girls attending these PG Medical Entrance Exam Coaching tells that parents no longer differentiate between a girl and boy (at least as far as Medical Field is concerned)Doctor Brunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04718690205239520878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-24469969581932542092007-04-28T17:59:00.000+05:302007-04-28T17:59:00.000+05:30Vote for Congress, problems of JEE will get solved...Vote for Congress, problems of JEE will get solved. Arjun Singh will do it for you, one OBC at a time.barbarindianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14335786532366741947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-60830860379484041502007-04-28T13:31:00.000+05:302007-04-28T13:31:00.000+05:30What we miss here is an input from women professor...What we miss here is an input from women professors of engineering who have done their degree in IIT (I happen to know a couple of them, I have sent to one of them the address of this blog). We need to know what motivation they had and how they managed to survive in the male dominated environment once they were in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-9670556044440076672007-04-28T04:05:00.000+05:302007-04-28T04:05:00.000+05:30I disagree with the authors POV. Correlating two s...I disagree with the authors POV. Correlating two statistics and arriving at a trivial solution seems horribly wrong to me. <BR/><BR/>I would like to add, that this is not a trend exclusive to India. An american feminist had criticised a measure by the US Government to get more girls into science and maths, by initiating special programs that concentrated on correcting learning abilities. Her arguement being that the way society percieves women in science and industry, girls find the option unattractive. It was a long post and unfortunately I can not find it at the moment. I did however came across these interesting articles.<BR/><BR/>1) The Myth That Schools Shortchange Girls: Social Science in the Service of Deception<BR/>http://www.uaf.edu/northern/schools/myth.html<BR/><BR/>2) Steering Girls into Science:<BR/>http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1032346,00.html<BR/><BR/>3)Why girls turn their backs on a science education?<BR/>http://www.lboro.ac.uk/orgs/opp2000/chap2.htm<BR/><BR/>-AbhijitAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-45102858803573629602007-04-28T00:49:00.000+05:302007-04-28T00:49:00.000+05:30As Falstaff has pointed out, the data is not suffi...As Falstaff has pointed out, the data is not sufficient to prove that there exists a bias. Your assertion that historical evidence of lesser women making past the JEE discourages current female students has serious consequences. That leaves open the possibility that male students, because of a perceived advantage, concentrate more on JEE and therefore less on their CBSE exams. This, if true, makes the claim of 'pool of possible candidates' shaky.<BR/><BR/>I really do not know any reasons and don't have an opinion on this. However, your correlation appears weak. Especially because the possibility at the other end of the spectrum seems to be over looked.Niluhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05054901897580784793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-70776192119458838112007-04-28T00:44:00.000+05:302007-04-28T00:44:00.000+05:30@falstaff: the data is available now. check my blo...@falstaff: the data is available now. check my blog, or this page:<BR/><BR/>http://www.ias.ac.in/womeninscience/about.htmVivek Kumarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01105406637636289966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-76916549622819127402007-04-28T00:20:00.000+05:302007-04-28T00:20:00.000+05:30@@ Abi>> Sudeep: Read the post again, before you s...@@ Abi<BR/>>> Sudeep: Read the post again, before you show off your ignorance: Girls do very well in high school. The 'prior conditions' didn't put them at a disadvantage there.<BR/><BR/>Its not me who is 'showing off ignorance', its you who is displaying a curious incapability to understand any viewpoint that clashes with your pet political theories. <B>This debate you are trying to win is not about academics, its about your politics.</B><BR/><BR/>>> Your characterization of JEE as a 'mere' problem-solving exercise is false. It's a problem-solving exercise that requires intensive coaching.<BR/><BR/>And what problem solving exercise does'nt involve coaching ? <B>even the 'fairer' exam you favor will also require coaching, albeit in high school. One can argue, that your fair exam is biased in favor of urban students who have better access to better high schools.</B> Next you will perhaps argue that the fair exam be made more fair by eliminating it altogether !<BR/><BR/>>> And, what was that stuff about hormones? Do boys get an extra dose of JEE hormones?<BR/><BR/>No. But as girls grow up in the 9-12 period, they are exposed to far greater social pressures than boys. <BR/><BR/>>> As for analogy with chess, I will have to ask you the following: Do you want higher education (seen as a stepping stone for prosperity and better life) to be like playing chess (a voluntary activity)? Is our government spending hundreds of crores on chess?<BR/><BR/>I hope you understand that you can not answer a question with another question. I pointed out that chess has far fewer female grand masters than male grand masters, and asked you if you think the game of chess is biased against women. <BR/><BR/>Instead of answering that question, you jump into a truism about higher education being in general better for ones future and govt. spending money into higher education. All true, but how is it related to your original assertion that JEE (and IITs by extension) is biased ? <BR/><BR/>You have nothing constructive to offer beyond platitudes about "fairness", "social justice" etc. about the JEE. You do not offer an alternative that can work. <BR/><BR/>1) Your fairer exam will have no way to get the long tailed results that an examination like JEE needs.<BR/><BR/>2) Your fairer exam will be far more opaque and subjective than the JEE. (e.g. the SAT2 and the MIT admission process).<BR/><BR/>3) The fairer exam itself will be biased in a different way. Urban students will always have better access to high schools and better teachers. Besides requiring the children to be from a particular social background, remember the DPS case about the little girl who could not get an admission because her father was a constable ?<BR/><BR/><BR/>---<BR/><BR/>In defense of coaching centers, they are nothing but advanced problem solving courses in PCM subjects.<BR/><BR/>The best, the most involved and the most accessible teachers I ever had were in coaching centers. In my time it used to be cheap, 5K Rs. per year for both physics and maths, now its more expensive. <BR/><BR/>They did'nt ask you what job your parents had, what 'medium' you studied in, you only had to clear their entrance exam. You had to have 80% in Sc/Math. in 10th std even to write the entrance exam. If you were really bright and really poor, they would not turn you away (probably because a good rank for any student was like an ad. for their coaching, but this is besides the point). <BR/><BR/>Within the coaching center, we were seperated into groups of different capabilities. Each group -15-20 ppl- studying at its own pace (as fast as it could humanely go).<BR/><BR/>My high school education on the other hand, catered to the Lowest Common Denominator in a 90 strong class. Obviously, some were pretty 'low' in this class. IIRC, one person in my class was convicted for murder. The lectures were insipid, did not have access to the latest teaching aids, or the best books. (Curiosly, my years at JEE were similar: some pretty bad profs , tremendous work load, insipid lectures etc).<BR/><BR/>This foundation helped me a lot in my professional life. (I am a Computer Science engineer, and frequently need to understand and implement math. algorithms that are new to me). <BR/><BR/>Abi, you dont know what you are talking about when you bad mouth coaching centers. In the first place you do it only because of your politics.. This endeavor of yours is dishonest in the extreme.<BR/><BR/>SudeepAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-48067023353843769152007-04-27T23:39:00.000+05:302007-04-27T23:39:00.000+05:30Abi: Sorry. I'm not trying to be a pain (though on...Abi: Sorry. I'm not trying to be a pain (though on evidence, I'm doing a good job of it). I just think we've got two equally plausible hypotheses about why less women end up taking the JEE, with conclusive evidence for neither, so the only way to take the discussion forward is to define what data we could collect to test it and then look for that information (as you're now doing). One suggestion - while you are asking your readers about % of women in engineering schools, maybe you could also ask for % of women in other non-engineering schools (medical, etc.) as well as % of women in coaching classes your readers may have taken. <BR/><BR/>As a non-engineer and someone who took no coaching classes in school, I really have very little perspective on this. My only prior is the fact that in my school, where over half the class X toppers were women, there was a clear skew in Class XI and XII with a greater proportion of boys taking science and a much greater proportion of boys preparing for JEE. The girls in my school weren't shying away from JEE because they couldn't afford / take coaching classes - they came from high-income households and took coaching classes for other stuff - they just weren't that interested in engineering. That's just anecdotal, of course, and not remotely generalisable, still it makes me think Vivek may have a point.<BR/><BR/>Your point about parents not being willing to let girls travel makes me wonder if there isn't a distance effect here as well. Maybe (and I'm just speculating here - the workings of the patriarchal parent mind are a closed book to me) parents want their daughters to stay at home while they study / attend colleges that are close by and are uncomfortable with them going off to live in some far-off city by themselves. Just thinking out aloud. <BR/><BR/>Of course, for your argument on JEE being discriminatory to work, it doesn't have to be true that the entire difference between the class X results and the JEE results is caused by the format of the JEE. I think it not unlikely that even if the JEE required little or no coaching you'd still see a smaller proportion of women sitting for the exam, but that doesn't mean the way the JEE is structured doesn't make the problem worse.Falstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09791162324919462038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-11423774489775572862007-04-27T23:07:00.000+05:302007-04-27T23:07:00.000+05:30@Madhat,That is an endless debate simply because m...@Madhat,<BR/><BR/>That is an endless debate simply because most people(including me) have only prepared for one exam. <BR/><BR/>I do accept that conceptually, JEE is tougher than a medical entrance exam, however, you must also accept that there is no IIT kind of institute in medicine. Most good schools admit 50 to 100 students and hence the competition is tougher. For example, while a 1800 rank in JEE would get you in a reasonably good program, with an equivalent rank in C.B.S.E P.M.T, you would land in a state medical college in some far flung part of the country. So the ''need'' for coaching is felt as much as in JEE if you wish to get into a reasonable school. <BR/><BR/>Abi,<BR/><BR/>The question is important because this trend has been consistent over the years, at least in the case of C.B.S.E.Instead of examining whether my question was clever or not, perhaps you should tell us why this has been so. <BR/><BR/>Second, as I said in my post, why do girls opt for gynecology in post graduate medical examinations? How many women Cardio-thoracic surgeons you know of? Why? Where is the entrance exam based bias there?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-25131025263263155392007-04-27T23:04:00.000+05:302007-04-27T23:04:00.000+05:30@Krish: I completely agree with you on the part ab...@Krish: I completely agree with you on the part about the expansion being very difficult. As to the question posed by you, let me pose a counter-question:<BR/><BR/>Why does this proposed expansion have to be "immediate"?<BR/><BR/>That is what we have been doing so far, isn't it? That is what the reservation policy is - immediate. You put them in place, the representation goes up. Then everyone goes home and forgets all about it. Nobody makes any efforts at addressing the fundamental issues that led to these imbalances in the first place.<BR/><BR/>Are you sure you want to continue with that strategy? Real change is hard and takes time to take place.Vivek Kumarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01105406637636289966noreply@blogger.com