tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post114839169581745076..comments2024-03-20T13:10:11.477+05:30Comments on nanopolitan: What is the effect of job quotas on the quality of our government schools?Abihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06790560045313883673noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-1148718626472312942006-05-27T14:00:00.000+05:302006-05-27T14:00:00.000+05:30Cipher: You say "He never intends to say that rese...Cipher: You say <I>"He never intends to say that reservations in primary schools is the reason for their poor performance."</I><BR/><BR/>I am not sure how you arrived at this conclusion..<BR/><BR/>As for the bit about primary education, we are all with you. It's important. But, it is not in competition with other means of achieving the goal of integrating disadvantaged groups into the mainstream.<BR/><BR/>Dr. Bruno: Thanks for bringing the perspectives about govt. school teachers and their hardships. But the point is still valid: there are some bad teachers. <BR/><BR/>Anon: I am not sure I get your point ...<BR/><BR/>Shrik: Thanks for equating Indiresan's way with that of Arjun Singh's! <BR/><BR/>Gaurav: Thanks for the comment, and for the link. I knew of that report, but never really got a chance to read it. <BR/><BR/>Well, Cipher, we *are* airing our views in public, aren't we? We are asking for hard data about the impact of quotas, aren't we? To me, blogs are a public forum. Thanks for the suggestion, though.Abihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06790560045313883673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-1148526863910204612006-05-25T08:44:00.000+05:302006-05-25T08:44:00.000+05:30krish and abi: I have perhaps argued much in the p...krish and abi: I have perhaps argued much in the preceding days with you on the need to implement reservations. I was and remain an ardent opponent to reservations per se and consider the idea itself as fundamentally wrong. According to me, if the externalities are the problem change them. And if you can't change them in 60 years, don't carry on reserving seats to get votes. Through all the blogs and newspaper reports on reservations which I have tracked and perhaps read, I have been able to conclude only one thing. There has been no substantive study on the impact of reservations, the number of people who can avail reservations, the number who actually get reservations and their social stratas. Whatever facts have been produced till now are muddlesome and do not support each other.<BR/> Thus ideally and logically both the fans and opponents of reservations should yearn for an impartial enquiry which addresses all these questions.<BR/> However the way the issue is being handled by the government leaves us all with a sense of hopelessness and utter despair. Decisions which require thought and thorough care and consideration are taken within a day. <BR/>From all those who have gone through Arjun Singh's interview on IBN live it becomes very clear that he doesnt have any data, facts or tables to support himself. He isnt aware of the data which parliamentary commitees have produced. He is not afraid of questions, he is indiffernt to them. He is not fit to be an HRD minister.<BR/> Tell me you are academicians, Is it possible to increase 27% seats within a year or even 3 years. Why don't they increase 27% beds in government hospitals every year. Isnt that required more than putting in 27% more people.<BR/> I bring this talk to an end. Plainly stating I in future will never want to be a part of any such IIT or IIM which accepts such an assault from the government silently. <BR/>I urge you all to use your influence (if you have any) to oppose such histrionics from the side of the government. I urge you to come ahead and speak in public, speak to newspapers and media to write to them instead of confining yourself to a blog ( if thats what you have been doing till now).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-1148470533045587112006-05-24T17:05:00.000+05:302006-05-24T17:05:00.000+05:30We have already exchanged views on this subject ov...We have already exchanged views on this subject over email, so you know where I stand. There are two ways of looking at it -<BR/><BR/>a - The state of education is already so bad that raising the bogey of dipping quality due to reservations for teachers is not right<BR/><BR/>b - since the state of education is already so bad, why make it worse by enforcing reservations for teachers?<BR/><BR/>You know my ideological viewpoint. Let the owner decide. Here since the owner is "our" government, we will all express what we think should be done, but in a democracy, the will of majority will be implemented.<BR/><BR/>By the way, as an aside, please do read <A HREF="http://www.ccsindia.org/Delhi%20Report%20Tooley-new.pdf" REL="nofollow">this report</A>. Very interesting.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-1148412170671680242006-05-24T00:52:00.000+05:302006-05-24T00:52:00.000+05:30Thus, the broad goal of 'improving our schools' ta...<I>Thus, the broad goal of 'improving our schools' takes us face to face with problems such as the above. These are real, hard problems that can be addressed only through popular awareness and political will. Instead of contributing to solving real problems, Indiresan has, sadly, chosen to foist on us a bogus problem that conflates reservation and poor quality of our schools.</I><BR/><BR/>In a similar vein, Arjun Singh too has avoided this problem, and chosen the easy (and populist) way out instead..Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-1148407144085650062006-05-23T23:29:00.000+05:302006-05-23T23:29:00.000+05:30cipher,This guy Indrasen has quoted Thomas Sowell....cipher,<BR/><BR/>This guy Indrasen has quoted Thomas Sowell. Just a simple Google search will tell how academics have ridiculed Sowell in US. This guy uses Sowell because it is convenient for him. Recently I saw an interview with one guy from under privileged sections who had the good fortune to go to the top without the help of reservations. He had the right kinda environment and he had other "external factors" that could help him get to the top. He criticizes the reservations saying that it is not needed for underprivileged kids to go to the top. His argument conveniently ignores the other "external factors" in play. His argument was so simplistic based on one data point. Thomas Sowell falls into similar category. If whatever Thomas Sowell says is true, Katrina shouldn't have happened and we should have had a big percentage of African Americans on the top of the society. The percentage of African Americans who are successful is still low. Thomas Sowell's argument has been rubbished by academics. He is supporting the concept of Bell Curve and uses it in his arguments. Science has clearly proved that the basic premise of Bell Curve (Intelligence is primarily genetically based) is plain wrong. This kicks out most of the arguments made by Sowell. This guy Indrasen, in spite of being Director of IITM, is basing his arguments on Sowell. This very fact clearly throws our the arguments of Indrasen to Garbage bin. His ramble lacks scientific logic. If you think he is making sense, I really don't know what to say. I can say one thing. There are many educated people in India who lacks the ability to comprehend science.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-1148401816027470082006-05-23T22:00:00.000+05:302006-05-23T22:00:00.000+05:30Two things: Amartya Sen himself mentions the lack ...Two things: Amartya Sen himself mentions the lack of attendance by teachers in state run schools which was shown by the Pratrichi fund that he set up and highlights it as one of the main points.<BR/><BR/>Do reservations currently exist in schools in Tamil Nadu???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-1148397190144193362006-05-23T20:43:00.000+05:302006-05-23T20:43:00.000+05:301. The students going to Govt School is different ...1. The students going to Govt School is different from the guy who goes to private unrecognised school and is different from the guy who goes to Residential school. As such, it will be a very vain and COMPLETELY USELESS and idiotic attempt at comparing these as the USERS are entirely different economic and social strata and will have different priorities. It is like comparing cheese and chalk. For example, if you compare engineering college and medical college and come to a judgement (that the cost per student in engineering college is less than the cost per student in medical college), that shows the mental acumen of the person who did this study. On the other hand, a good study would have been comparing Govt schools across many states and private schools across many states (or Delhi medical colleges vs Maharashtra medical colleges or Orissa Engineering colleges vs Rajasthan Engineering colleges)<BR/><BR/>The present study is like comparing shaving cream (or may be sanitary napkin) uses between boys and girls and is absolute bull shit<BR/><BR/>2. Teachers in Private Schools have few work (but more working hours)... They are expected to<BR/>a. Teach in the class room<BR/>b. Correct Papers<BR/><BR/>On the other hand teachers of Govt schools are expected to do every nonsense work including voter identification, verification of ration cards and even census. As such, it is very logical that their attendance in classrooms is less than the counterparts in private schools, but it is not the fault of the education department.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9818962.post-1148396782390878572006-05-23T20:36:00.000+05:302006-05-23T20:36:00.000+05:30Here again you have tried to twist his arguments i...Here again you have tried to twist his arguments in a not so artistic way. Forget reservations in primary schools for teachers. He never intends to say that reservations in primary schools is the reason for their poor performance. I and perhaps most others would concur with what he said which is the following:<BR/>(1) The condition of primary schools is bad. There may be several reasons for this. You seemed to have put effort to reason some of them out.<BR/>(2) It is better if we can somehow improve the condition of the primary schools rather than providing free sops like reservations, which require no real effort, are short term and whose real benefits are not surely researched upon. All governments have failed to improve primary education in successive years.<BR/>(3) Reservation are a way for the governemnts to shroud their failure in being able to provide infrastructural facilities at every nook and corner of India. It is attractive for the backward classes who avail them and are aware of them. The price which the society has to pay for reservation is in terms of total neglect of sections of the society who live in far flung villages who don't even know what an IIT or AIIMS is. Hence reservation is intended for most of those who are not in a position to avail them.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.com