... has begun.
Vinod Scaria has started a forum discussion thread on Ayyadurai at the Nature India website [Update (6 December 2009): Scaria's post has been removed by the forum administrators at Nature India; it's archived here, though]. Scaria is a scientist at IGIB (a CSIR lab), New Delhi; in his post, he says quite a few things that shatter Ayyadurai's self-portrait as a professional who -- before he gave up, or, was fired -- fought against immense odds for 'freedom for science' at CSIR.
While we are not in a position to comment on what really went on in those meetings (for example, Scaria paints him as not just unprofessional, but unethical as well), we can certainly form an opinion on what is available on the web. Scaria does a good job of unearthing this stuff for us:
... I am not amused to find a Nature Biotechnology in his CV with the word “submitted” in small type and his claim to have written a commentary in Nature , while it is nothing but a Blog in nature India.see it for yourself here. The homepage even features a PDF with a complete nature.com logo.
Here's the entry for his 'commentary'; as of now, it's No. 1 in Ayyadurai's resume under "Selected Publications":
S. Ayyadurai, Commentary: Innovation Demands Freedom, Nature, December, 2009.
Scaria is right: this 'commentary' is something that appeared in the Nature India website -- which is distinct from Nature, the science journal. To claim that it's a commentary that appeared in Nature (within a couple of days after it appeared at Nature India) says something about the man who has cried 'unprofessional' at every bloody opportunity.
[Thanks to this comment, I checked out this page that reproduced his 'commentary'; at that time, it featured 'Nature.com' logo prominenty, right at the top, as some sort of a 'masthead'. Evidently, Ayyadurai has been following blog comments; the masthead now features Nature India.]
[Similarly, I'm not able to locate the 'Nature Biotechnology' paper (which Scaria refers to in his scathing post) in Ayyadurai's CV, probably because this entry has now been 'corrected'.]
200 Comments:
fantastic disclosure ! Vinod has taken time to pick the valid points and hit him really badly. For all the Shiva Ayyadurai fan club, this should be a great news
I did not know Shiva is so fast . I too saw the homepage featuring the nature.com logo prominently and yes, now I see it has suddenly changed to Nature India. You are sitting on the website or what ? Dr Fraud ?
I wonder why you have so much to say about Shiva (an obvious fraud), however nothing to say about DG-CSIR (a known bully).
Anony 3
Fraud is a crime , bullying is a virtue, buddy
While I am no fan of Shiva Ayyadurai, I am somewhat amused to note the following points.
1) This Vinod Scaria is from the IGIB, which was headed by Sameer Brahmachari until he became the DG. Since IGIB is not a big place, I won't be surprised if this Vinod is a close associate of the and hence decided to act as DG's mouthpiece in this proxy war!!
2) If this Shiva was such a character (and it appears to be the case, why was he recruited in a haste and let loose on CSIR scientists?
Either way, I do not feel really comfortable in knowing that one of the major S&T organization of our country is run by such a person.
Anony 5 it is quite possible that way, but fact is a fact. the major issue raised by Vinod is not the controversy between GD and SA, but rather the fraud and unethical conduct by Shiva Ayyadurai. Now that nanopolitan has verified some of the allegations of fraud, (including the sudden reversal of the masthead on the SA website) things I hope are evident. I rest my case.
Hey Anony 5. Are you SA yourself (good reason not to be an SA fan ) ? I am just amazed by the speed you guys change things around on the homepage.
I just went through the scathing attack on SA by Vinod. Can I have a copy of the CV ? Can anybody put a copy of it online ? If what is out is true, it is good that Shiva is in Boston. Has anybody kept screenshots of the different versions of the SA website ?
Others around CSIR were saying he did not have a valid visa to work in the country. Any updates on this ?
Another rumour was that hi got trashed out at a press meeting he held by journalists. any update anybody around has ?
Shiva is a fraud is a fraud is a fraud ...
Good to hear directly from a person who interacted with Shiva during his stint in CSIR. If it is to be believed, Shiva is nothing less than a fraud.
It is normal to have people raising a hue and cry when they fail miserably. Shiva is no exception. he thinks he is smart and used the age old technique , bite before somebody throws a stone at you.
SA did a big mistake of joining CSIR. He should have joined some management school of IIPM type. He would have had a good future.
Abi, you and other folks should be congratulated for your work on shedding light on this story. Shiva seems to have figured out how to "control" media to spew his I-am-a-martyr version of the story. But the open-source "Web 2.0" attempts by numerous commenters on unearthing his frauds is really heartening.
I sometimes think most of the comments in support of Ayyadurai in nanopolitan and other forums, were from Ayyadurai himself disguised as Anony. Who else will support this fraud.
Abi I have lost all respect for you. I never realized that you can stoop to such low levels to gain some cheap popularity.
Removing the word India from Nature India, is not a good act, but definitely it does not come in the category of fraud.
I can infer certain things from your blog
1) You have only selectively criticized SA, not the head of CSIR or any of the scientists working there.
Is it because, you need some favors from them??
2) Your research has lost all steam, and you have more time writing blogs, doing crappy investigative journalism rather than doing some research.
V
Shiva has updated his website with tons of news items about how he was victimised. He seems ruthless in his PR efforts.
http://vashiva.com/vashiva/index.html
On the other hand CSIR scientists seem to have taken this episode with almost Gandhian tolerance. Happy to see Vinod Scaria saying something in return.
Anony 13 , you must be right. Who else can Anony 14 be ?
I know Abi fro quite some time as a teacher. I know the work he does and what he stands for. SA, you are barking up the wrong tree
Yes you are right Ankur. Absolutely right
Even though I find it hard to believe that SA is such a big fraudster, I still want to know Abi's opinion on CSIR and its head.
In all the posts related to this issue, he has maintained silence over the working of CSIR.
Abi, do you support Brahmachari and his band.
Dear Abi, Dr. Shiva. Whom to believe?
I will believe Dr. Shiva. He is getting article in New York Times, the best newspaper in the world. And also by a very credible journalist also.
This is typical Indian behaviour. Always jealous of people. Ok. So he cancelled his meeting because he had to meet his wife. So that is making people see things in bad light. This type of thing happens all the time. There must have been something urgent. To somehow show it in unprofessional light is not good.
Dr. Shiva is a guest of this country. What happened to our hospitality? I am very shocked how we are going after someone who could have saved CSIR from doom. Now nobody is coming to India any more as Ramurthy sir said.
On scientist from IGIB (CSIR):
This is a free world of blogospehere. Any one can write anything behind anonymity. However most of these comments are without any solid factual documents and based mostly on verbal or imaginary communications. One by Vinod Scaria, the IGIB faculty is of similar type; his entire narrative is based solely on some verbal communications. Where is the solid document to support his claims against Shiva Ayyadurai?
Vinod Scaria is a medical doctor by training with Bachelors degree in medicine (MBBS) from Calicut. He have a knack in computational methods and joined for a PhD program at IGIB under Dr Brahmachari on 2005 (co-guide Dr Beena Pillai). Before joining as the DG of CSIR, Dr Brahmachari was the director IGIB. Vinod was in the last batch of scientists appointed by Dr Brahmachari on 2007. Vinod Scaria is not a PhD yet, but for some unknown reason he got the job at IGIB. Most Indian university dose not allow a MBBS degree holder to peruse PhD (must get an MD). Relation between Scaria and Brahmachari is similar to that of Goebbels and Hitler. He is just a mouth piece of Brahmachari’s propaganda machine. So, his comment in parallel blogs (http://network.nature.com/groups/natureindia/forum/topics/6105
and http://shiva-ayyadurai.blogspot.com/) dose not count as solid evidence. Role of these blogs are solely to cover the feudal regime at CSIR by creating noisy information in the media.
A commentary by Shiva in Innovation demands freedom: V. A. Shiva Ayyadurai
doi:10.1038/nindia.2009.346; Published online 1 December 2009, is clearly in Nature India and not in the Nature Journal. It not a peer reviewed publication and simply a commentary. However, including this article as a publication in CV by Shiva does not count as fraud, it is rather ignorance.
Vinod is concerned about Shiva’s inclusion of a submitted article in Nature Biotechnology, but I think he should be more concerned about inclusion of an already rejected article in DG-CSIR’s CV page (http://www.igib.res.in/dg.html) as submitted article:
132. The Indian Genome Variation Consortium (150 authors). S.K. Brahmachari et.al. Genetic Landscape of the People of India: a Canvas for Disease Gene Exploration.
Nature Genetics (2007) (Revised manuscript submitted).
This article is already rejected by Nature on 2008 and now published in Journal of human genetics published by Indian Academy of Science:
1: Indian Genome Variation Consortium. Genetic landscape of the people of India: a canvas for disease gene exploration. J Genet. 2008 Apr; 87(1):3-20. PubMed PMID: 18560169.
So, those who live in glass-houses should not pelt stone at others.
An inquiry commission by Govt. of India is much warranted in stopping this media publicity war and starting a real investigation.
Why are you washing dirty linen in public Anonymous 20. If claiming a Nature commentary instead of Nature India Blog is IGNORANCE, I hope you would not say Shiva was ignorant of anything he did in CSIR. I know Vinod for quite some time now, and his association with Samir would not disprove facts and points on fraud and ethics he raised. The real question is who is Shiva ? is his words truthful ? Why was he sacked ?
We all know about CSIR and what it does. We do not need an introduction to it from Shiva . Yes there have been problems, bt which orgabnisation does not have problems. We are not under the euphoria that Shiva is a perfect persona and all he says is truth.
SA claims to be a faculty at the Biological Engineering Department at MIT. The list of faculty is available at http://web.mit.edu/be/people/index.htm Can anyone find him?
reply to Insider(21) from Annon20
Dirty linen washing in public was to unmask the face of the person who is talking loud in public.
I agree with you that most organization have problem. But we need to solve the problem by going to its root and not by taking Ostrich's attitude to cover up those problems. India is our country and we should make it perfect by strict judicial system
Yes, and who is talking about it ? Shiva Ayyadurai ? I am not amused Anon 23.
Well Vinod is not the first person to call him a fraud. The journalists at the press meeting he organised at pres club already have done so.
Great job, Anonymous 20. Do you mean to say I am Vinod Scaria ? Surely you must have gone nuts. So what is all the Vinod CV post on Nanopolitan ? We all know his CV and better in person. So whats the big deal ?
What happened to the Shiva case in High Court ? Heard that it has been summarily dismissed and thats why Shiva had to rush to Boston ? Anybody around who can feed me and my Blog ?
Has SA taken copyright permissions for all the copyright contents from diffrent media he has posted on his site. If this is done by an ordinary mortal he would have been hounded by US copyright industry. How can he scoop big time on copyright law like this and get away? Is it that he has scant respect for law?
I don't think so. Probbaly Nature is sending him a notice on Monday morning if he is not fast enough to take it off. Now by his speed of doing things as reported he might narrowly escape. But hope he is aware that already multiple screenshots of the page have been archived online by this time.
Well, Anony 27. that speaks a lot of his personality. He would probably have explanations down his sleeve . Let us see.
I think that the people who are writing comments here are educated people working in the field of sciences in India. Everyone who works in India, knows about the sorry state of affairs in India, and yet they are supporting Dr. B from CSIR.
Let us assume that Shiva is a fraudster and an evil guy, but still that does not give a clean chit to these people at CSIR.
Prof. Abi, should paint a complete picture and not an incomplete one, where Shiva is portrayed as a villain and people at CSIR as wronged heroes.
Prof. Abi, I would appreciate if you also expose some truths about the CSIR and IISC rather than focusing on just Shiva.
Thanks,
Varun A.
Anony 20, i was just amazed by Vinod's CV No wonder Shiva would be behaving as stated by Natarajan
The most balanced comment has come from Varun (# 30).
Granted that Shiva is a fraud but what about CSIR's sorry state. I wish if Minister S & T could use this episode to oevrhaul the functioning of CSIR.
Yes, I believe CSIR has started that by starting to chuck out people like Shiva Ayyadurai. Just imagine if people like Shiva could not be dismissed and would continue till retirement. I think the CSIR DG did a great job by chucking him out immediately.
I don't understand why everybody says CSIR is in a sorry state. Is serving the poor and not being in media limelight a crime ?
The Shiva Ayyadurai Fan Club has some interesting clips on the Shiva Ayyadurai episode. In one of them, he claims he would work for a Rupee because he loves (hic) his country. Shiva, I can give you an offer to serve my company for 1 Rupee a month. Would you be interested ?
Mr. Insider, you are amongst the most dumb people of all time. Atleast remove the link to your stupid fan club site, people will take you more seriously after that.
Vinod and Sridhar mystery unraveled:
"Insider" started "The Shiva Ayyadurai Fan club blog". He is actually the insider of Smair Brahmachari's office. Insider and Vindo Scaria may be same; he is the most web savvy person in Brahmachari's team. He is hopping between blogs and commenting without any evidence in hand. Word of mouth cannot be considered as evidence.
“Insider” in comment 21 already admitted that “Yes there have been problems”. How he know it if “Insider” is not an insider of DG-CSIR’s office? Investigation against Shiva and Brahmacahri will disclose everything.
Vinod Scaria and Sridhar Sivasubbu's promotion in scientific ladder is due in next couple of years. They are working hard to please Samir Brahmacahri to get promotion. This job of blog writing is given to them by DG-CSIR itself to protect his image. They can get promotion just for being a blogger and they don’t need to do quality science. They are among most juniors in IGIB and cannot ignore order of "big boss". They are helpless. So, please don’t blame them.
Real Shiva Ayyaduari fan club is probably FREEDOM OF SCIENCE blog http://freedomforscience.blogspot.com/
Threatening people those who do not sit and up on his commands is an old habit of DG-CSIR. Why Brahmachari is trying to intimidate honest media like NY times and Star news, if he has nothing to hide? Other Indian media is already sold out to Brahmachari.
Agreed Shiva is a fraud. He has cost the exchequer a few lakhs - chump change compared to thousands of crores at stake (possibly embezzled) if the CSIR is indeed going down the drain as Shiva claims.
If Shiva is indeed a cheat why was he hired? Even a highly paid Indian executive makes far less than an American in an average job. Were there other kickbacks? What were the amounts involved? Who was benefitting? Why are there so many ad hominem attacks on Shiva? And why is the author of this blog continuously "unravelling" Shiva, a man of no consequence any more?
Can't the RTI Act be used to get more info about this case?
Anon 37, go and watch TZP. You must be mentally ill to write such stuff. Your history also seems to be off into cliche-land; M-bib was India's better kings.
Why is there is moral equivalence that people are claiming between VS and SB? Why should Abi criticize SB -- that is not the story here. I am sure Abi can run a story on SB independenlty, if he feels like.
But I agree with Natarajan. The quality of Vinod's writing or his choice of incidents are rather trivial. Vinod is some wannabe scientist expecting VS to be grateful about their appointment is amazing.
Anon 37: One can disagree with DG-CSIR professionally to any extent but making such cheap shots and hitting below the belt is disgusting. Are you a scientist? Shame on you.
This guy VS is another addition to the whole story. He is taking on web savvy SA on behalf of DG-CSIR. More skeletons may come out of the closet!!!
I think for most outsiders, this Shiva Ayyadurai episode is NOT one of a Shiva v/s CSIR or Shiva v/s Bramhachari kind. Us outsiders think of this as Shiva v/s Indian science establishment in general, since Shiva's criticism has been generic and may be applicable to a lot of other institutes.
I am inclined to suspect that any Anonymous commenter who interprets Abi's (or anyone's) criticism of Shiva as being his support for Bramhachari is most likely, Shiva himself. Because in his mind, this battle is between him and Bramhachari only. Most others would see this conflict in the larger context of Indian science. For eg my gut feeling is Anonymous 18, saying things such as "Abi, do you support Brahmachari and his band." is Shiva. So is anonymous 20.
Anonymous 20 is even more curious, since he has repeated the same post on nature. See http://network.nature.com/groups/natureindia/forum/topics/6105?page=2
This desperation to defend Shiva and attack the Shiva's critics personally can come only from Shiva himself.
Who is Shiva, who is Shiva?
Shiva seems to be everywhere!
Ayya Durai -- Please show yourself and enlighten us. We are eager to walk down the path you show us.
Dear Abi
It may be best to delete Anon 37's post . Its borderline libelous and hits below the belt
Some updates:
Someone by the name V Patel is commenting on nature India in ardent support of Shiva. I searched "V Patel CSIR" on google and found no results, which makes me suspect this V Patel is Shiva again :-)
Furthermore, V Patel wrote a blog by himself on nature India which was taken down by moderators. Does anyone have a copy? I came on that page after it was taken down. See
http://network.nature.com/groups/natureindia/forum/topics/6095
Those who do not know Shiva may just read his Nature India article. He claims to be a faculty at MIT. But the list of faculty at the Department of Biomedical Engineering available here http://web.mit.edu/be/people/index.htm I cant find Shiva. The last is heard of him was at Press Club Delhi where he admitted to reporters that he was not having a valid visa. I too therefore ask ths eternal question Who and where is Shiva.
Anonymous 36, you have trivialised the issue by telling VS and SB are doing all this for promotion. This is probably too much (what else can you expect from people who are just after money and publicity). Given the kind of work they do, I do not think they would need to do this to just please their boss. Both of them have great papers under their belt and well known in their circles. I think the point they raised is relevant and explains in part why Shiva has suddenly exited the scene from India and now running this proxy war from US.
Update:
Vinod's and Sridhar's blogs have been removed from the nature India website.
Shiva *is* a lecturer at MIT. See
http://web.mit.edu/bin/cgicso?query=Ayyadurai
The deleted Blogs are now available at Shiva Ayyadurai Fan Club . Hey guys, I need some traffic to my Blog, some come over
Hey Guys, I am not sure you had noticed this . all the comments on the entire Shiva Ayyadurai story comes in at night (when the other half of the globe is awake). People sit down to do India bashing, with nothing else to do or what ?
Shiva must be the master of PR.
Oh boy.
Now all we need is an Outlook story saying "Should CSIR be shut down?" They did that to DRDO, and all of a sudden DRDO started doing interesting work.
Anonymous 51, do you imply to say CSIR does not do any Interesting work ? Probably you should start reading some General Knowledge material. Are you one of those frustrated India bashers who have holed up in Boston ? Go away man, the topic is on Ayyadurai fraud, and let us keep it straight.
Hey, I have zero stake in this game. Just following this out of curiosity.
On a sidenote, I have a feeling this blog will shut down soon.
Commentators, kindly note. It is not about a fight between two persons, DG-CSIR and Shiva ayyadurai. It is a dangerous disease, more particularly planted during R.mashelkar's Regime. He purchased all Media at delhi, media started writing against, then SWA and its office bearers. He finished off the his enemy number one the assoications and unions using then BJP's Murali manohar Joshi telling him that unions are communists and showed himself a RSS/BJP man by attending a RSS ceremony in Nagpur during 1999(he was honoured by RSS-Sudharsan). He swindled CSIR. Now he is one of the top rich amn in the country who was a monthly wage earner. People should understand what these people at IISC and CNRRao were doing to set right CSIR and his anti- indian activities. Then Dr. Ramasamy took over as incharge DGSIR. Why he was not permanent DGSIR. The Kerala and Bengal Lobby worked well to see to it that bramachari, though, biologist, basic science man was appointed. He goes to many CSIR labs and his behaviour and speeches there are of highly insulting self respecting people. In IT era, Scientists, 30 %, Admin: 30& and technical and others:40%. Admn people have a say in CSIR, real scientists have to just seat take their pies silently. CSIR became a Guest house annexe to IISc. He uses to support persons from IISc and dig other non-IISc-CSIR scientists....contd..after comments
anonymus 54: contd: Scientists are lesser in number compared to Admn people. Scientist have make ECF for his expenditure, travels etc. but All TA/DA for institutes are utilised by Admn. Hence CSIR Admn as a whole and IISC protects DG CSIR and CSIR-lab directors. Persons from IISC could find jobs only in CSIR labs by back door entry only. They use CSIR lab and dig scientsits , and go somewhere for better position and return to the lab as its Director or RC member or committee member to question his own ex-head of dvn
Mr.Anon-54-55: Yor IP address has been noted by CSIR and IB, You will be trialed in the court of law as well as by disciplinary proceedings under Rule 14. Your action will be framed as anti-national by IB and as unbecoming of a employee of CSIR by CSIR for telling and writing the facts about CSIR and it bureaucrats. I am pretty sure that you are CSIR man victimised by CSIR and it feudal system. " God only can bring justice to deprived people of CSIR" -OUTSIDER
Nature takes out the blog entry of Sridhar and Scaria. The Nature India article of Shiva requires log in. But interestingly Nature allows Shiva Ayyadurai to reproduce the same article on his website and also allow him to carry Nature Masthead. This shows a clear complicity of Nature India in this affair. This is reinforced from the fact that a person like SA with just one paper to his credit has been called a scientist in the Nature article. We scientists in India has discovered long back that we dont exisit for Nature India whatever be the number of papers and citations we hvae.What is behind this new found love of Nature to India? Can anyone say what the reason could be?
Hi guys, why are you again and agian diverting the attention from the ponts raised by the scientists at IGIB. You must be hiding something. Please note this is a discussion on Shiva Ayyadurai and NOT what is CSIR's problem. We could have a separate section that that I suppose, to debate out the issues on CSIR.
This discussion is ON SHIVA AYYADURAI and the allegations raised against him of FRAUD and UNETHICAL BEHAVIOUR that is uncoming of a snake oil salesman
Anony 57, I agree with this. The same issue was raised on Shiva Ayyadurai Fan Club . Swapan Kumar Das, also mentions of blackouts on his posts. Nature India seems to be hand-in-glove with SA on this issue. When all the journalists has left him afer his last press meet, Nature India promotes SA under its umbrella. What is this gameplan ?
Anon:57, 58 &59: you people support the present brahmanical structure of CSIR system. Your aim is divert the attention of facts and realities by somebody, whther it is ayyadurai or some 'X". If SA had not commented on functioning ofCSIR system, you people would have been after him for want position etc. Certainly, you are all backdoor brhamins. now In CSIR has made appointments made for its 12 CSIR labs, how amny of them Bangalis ?. The main problem and issue about the prevailing system which is instrumental for whole debate and SA episodes. The comments in support of DG CSIR is HIS MASTERS VOICE, exploiters of the system.
Everybody knows what is IGIB (formerly IMTECh) and its historical existence at Delhi. What is its staff strength in 1995 ?. Whether its out put is anywhere comparable with CCMB ?. Can you undermine Dr.Bargua and Prof.Chopra ? At what age Samir became the Diretor of Tiny- sycophancy rtidden Imtech ? What is the achievements he made while he was at IISC. Malayalis and bengalis have captured all the Coveted positions in India and exploit. SAVE CSIR
See a blog of a group which calls itself UnoCSIR discussing the Ayyadurai episode and exposure by two CSIR scientists
Anony 61. Again diversion tactics. The point of debate is Fraud and unethical behaviour, and not CCMB-IGIB comparison.
Well back to the point you raised .Facts cannot be turned around. Samir was never the Director of IMTECH probably you should read through a bit of CSIR history before you write bulls**t. I think you should be able to compare the publication list of CCMB and IGIB online, and I give a fair chance for readers to compare it themselves.Please do not raise such stupid issues here.
The part palyed by Nature seems to be a piece of the greater gameplan to discredit Indian science. The latest Thomson Report shows that India is catching up with the western world fast. Rate of growth also is impressive and is clear from the graph plotted by them. Therefore the conventional establishment of US administration which were dormant after the colad war years has now a new cause of worry. They have activated their cohort CIA to plant people who could discredit Indian science. nature India is just a small pawn. You may see that it is operated by kids who have no real journalistic experience to their credit. The real shot is called from elswhere. Look at who has written on Shiva episode after it died down in India. New York Times, Nature and now Nature India publishes Shiva to keep a simple case of a misfit as a controversy. All posts which favors Shiva as pointed out above is coming from US after India sleeps. So Nature is just a part of the plan by the same perpetrators. Shiva fits into the scheme as a plant. Please note that Fulbright gives one year fellowship to someone with no real paper. He comes with a nationalistic hue and tries to raise a rebellion. All this show that Shiva is a plant. But only that CIA also got scooped by this man Shiva Ayyadurai. They wouldnt have thought that this chap is no naive and the bloggers in India would burst their carefully laid out plans. So Anon 59, Nature has no game plan, they are only pawns. In 1990's they brought in TRIPS to rein in developing country science. Indian scientists proved smart in that game. So there has to be a way to tame them. The more you see foreign journalist's interest in keeping such dead stories alive, you can very well understand the bigger gameplan. As America wakes up a little later, this blog will also be more active! Jai Hind
Anonymos 60 I think you have run of of ideas to discuss. as stated by UnoCSIR, I think you are just diverting from the issue. The issue is FRAUD : the Shiva Ayyadurai Fraud and the real circumstances of his quick exit from India
It could be easily understood that UnoCSIR has been formed by the sycophants of SAmir Brahmachari and CSIR dirty feudal system as they loot and exploit CSIR evil system. They get their due bread certainly. CSIR is nobody's property. It is the property Indian people. Instead, Samir himself open up a website itself with CSIR's money and infrastructure.
Anony 64. This seems to be quite fast-man ! The Shiva Ayyadurai Fan club seems to be quite following the story. See the post here
If we wee Brahmchri sycophants, we could have done it on day 1 when the shiva started crying . we have no affiliations with shiva or brahmachri. we stand for CSIR and the truth.
Anon 64 raises a valid suspicion. There is some real gameplan to discredit Indian science. But chain of events involving foreign journalists is really revealing.
Patriots and freedom lovers do not support the views expressed by UnoCSIR. please do not divert the discussion. it seems and ceratin that UnoCSIR is formed by the people from Samir's original lab. "Uno CSIR stands for a United CSIR. We strongly believe what CSIR stands for. The very cause of helping the people who have nobody else to help is what motivates us". As defined by Nehru CSIR means Council of Scientific and INDUSTRIAL Research. but whereever SAMIR goes he openly tells that he has changed CSIR into Council of Scientific and INNOVATIVE Research. Before talking like this and makinging mdifications in the aim of CSIR whether SAMIR has got the approval of Governing Body of CSIR. He thinks that he is above GB and above PM and CSIR is his private property. Those who work at CSIR presently accept the truth presented above. PM can take against SAMIR for working against the policy decisions of the parliament and the Govt. Certainly this will happen.
Dear Anon 70 : UnoCSIR stands for United CSIR. We are not Brahmchri sycophants nor do we support Ayyadurai. we are not afficliated with any lab or institute. We love CSIR and we represnt a united CSIR. we have no opinion or idea on whether we should called Industrial or Innovative, but for sure, UnoCSIR is nothing but innovative and we work like industry. got the point Dude ?
Look what is said here before in the blog is correct. As America wakes up there are more posts. They call themslves patriots. We dont have to swear patriotism in India right. These Americans reveal themselves. This reinforces what is stated by Anon 64
Scientists become politicians. Like politicians they use, work of CIA or KGB or RAW or ISI. scientists also take excuses on these organisations. Even it is the work of CIA, what about the CSIR system, can it prevent CIA to enter CSIR. Most of bureaucrats in India are fond of America and its money their children earning from there. Human rights violations by Americal was never condemned by Indian bureaucracy and the Indian Scientsits. why India's any of the rul(ed)ing party ever condemned whther it is Irag , Afghanistan or vietnam. Can I accuse ANON: 64 as KGB agent or Laden's agent. No it is not the case. Please understand ground realities. Set right the system in CSIR. Forget about Ayyaduarai. let us ask Samir to set right the CSIR system, let him revolution, to make a democratic and real sytem oriented towards a real S&T to see CSIR the god father of technologies to Indian industries. Long live CSIR with new openess. Introspection and retrospection.
Anon 72, does that give credibility to the American interest in the whole epidsode ? Does that mean Shiva is just a pawn in the entire gameplan hatched in America ? Does that explain his quick exit to America after the episode. Does that explain his shady preoccupations during his fellowship in Chennai ?
I think in this entire episode Brahmchri has doen the right thing. Kicking the guy who was a fraud o the first instance. Just imagine if these guys get to permanenet jobs and be a burden to taxpayers money.
CSIR was probably quick in realising that it was dealing with a self proclaimed fraud and I see there i no point continuing this argument and beating around the bush
I think the discussions are not going anywhere Abi. Probably you should close comments on this blog. The more you stay open, the more deeper hole you dig for Shiva.
THe CIA twist by Anon 64 is plausible , if you can actually sit back and try connecting the dots. It is still a hypothesis, but quite plausible one. Hee are the reasons.
1) The original HT article was written by an American Indian just back from America . Was it just sympathy to a fellow american that made her write this "exclusive" crap or was it a planned an executed activity ?
2)It has been the NYT and Nature which took up the issue, even after Indian journalists killed him and showed him the door at the press meeting he organised. How come all of them are foreign ?
3) Shiva is back in America. A quick exit which surprises me. Wha are the circumstances for his quick exit from India. He was fighting a case , and then by any reason, he should have been in India. Probbaly this clarifies on his intentions and ulterior motives.
4) People who have interacted with him in his previous stint in Chennai reveals he was a shady character and his preoccupations were equally shady. Was he a spy ?
UNoCSIR - brahmachari - industry-innovation-IGIB- fantstic. Vinod and s.. cerainly you will get coveted posts as Director in any one of the CSIR labs. Blind sycopancy is symbol of treason; betrayal of country's ethics and ideology. CSIR admn itself can open up blogs and can ask you IGIB people be authorised to write like this. They could have done so, but same things may repeat as it is happened many in the system. Let us wait and see the developments in a month or two. in 1996,Mashelkar was doing the mudsling exercise on CSIR scientists/Associations/unions using a delhi based Journalist "PHILIPS" from Kerala. Now present samir could use IT development and his own slaves for the job. This was known even to present Hon'ble minister Kabil sibal who was fighting case against mashelkar in those days. now george is with Soniaji, hence Samir takes the help of vinod..
The words used by Anon 73 is the exact reproduction of the words used by Shiva and Sardana in a mail written by them to CSIR scientists. It reveals the identity of Anon 73!
I dont know who is Shiva and who is Vinod, who started this forum discussion. But going through all these comments, I personally fill CSIR has done a good job kicking Shiva out (as it decrease no. of frauds in govt organization by at least one). And since Shiva has been kicked out by CSIR, he is now playing all the dirty game to gain sympathy.
Anon 77 brings out interesting facts about journalists who are covering this episode. All with American background. Facts are stranger than fiction!
Great Job Anon 79.
You have reveal one more fraud of Shiva.
I agree with Anon 81 and 77. Americans do not like Bangalis, much less malayalees. They want to discredit a highly qualified Bangali nationalist. Nature puts in its effort. Is our Left listening.
Dear Anon 78: Pity that you reduced UnoCSIR as Brahmachri sycophants. We would be back to ask Brahmchri on other issues once we finish one scandal, the Shiva Ayyadurai one. Thanks Anon 79 for the investigation. It seems that all the comments are written by none other than SA himself. Having now nothing to do, he must be full-time on his computer blogging here and wasting others' time beating around the bush.
I think the point raised by anon 64 and 77 are worth considerng. Any new Ayyadurai exposes tonight guys ?
Prasantho, I think it is time we make Nature accountable for its acts. Anybody has contact information of the Nature India editor who promotes SA ? I think we, as a party should take it up and see that the Nature India editor is summarily dismissed for her complacency and allowing a one-sided commentary filled with nothing but random digs. Or it should now have the official version f the story from CSIR or the alleged scientists described in the Nature India Blog.
Think Shiva is still busy posting comments here. His resume has not changed
Here s the status update:
# S. Ayyadurai, Commentary: Innovation Demands Freedom, Nature, December, 2009.
Today is a holiday, probably his Chennai company is enjoying their holiday.
Prasanto and Anon 85: I completely agree with you. Anybody has the contact details of the Nature India editor ? Email or phone number ? Probably we should organise a demonstration sometime next week in protest of multinantional companies tarnishing our scientists. probably we should be able to burn a copy of Nature in protest. we can plan it over this blog. post your convenient time and venue. All leftists, awaken and address this reality. We should fight out this American scamsters.Jai Hind
I agree, nature india seems to have vested interests in this entire episode. I wish nature editor looks into the misdeeds and allegations raised by Bloggers against its India editor.Or we would have to take it up legally.
I am also following up on the Visa issue I posted earlier. Anyone has updates on the visa issue ? Shiva allegedly did not have a valid visa to work anywhere. Any journalists around who were at the press meeting which Shiva held ?
It is a shame that you have such people in science. I think Shiva deserved what he got. i think we should have more responsible people in science rather than having frauds lined up.
Shiva i guess you will do better as a con artist. Just a suggestion.....!!!!
It is the same spirit that has so far denied CNR Rao the nobel prize that is now working aginst Brahmachari. No wonder Nature India is an accomplice. Why has Nature left Nature India managemnt in such immature hands. Or is there a game plan behind it?
i think Shiva you do great as a con artist...!!!
Anon 87: You guys want to launch a protest without even knowing contact details on Nature India Editor?!
So to all leftists: She is on twitter. http://twitter.com/Subhrapr
Jai Hind (are you sure lefists say Jai Hind??)
Abi, the first time nano should be crossing 100 comments on any story. Congrats. Well done!!
Artist and Shiva! No no Anon 91. He should try his luck in bollywood. Just watch this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS1LUbOxcuU&feature=player_embedded. Just one question Shiva, how may time you practices the dialogues before coming to camera? Please Shiva reply, because we know you are sitting in front of the blog as you have nothing to do after revealing your fraud.
An indian born american "a bengali" was used to file a US patent on Turmeric, the soul of Indian culture by US agencies, the matter was in US court. India was struggling to fight the case against indian born american-Bengali. We need not find fault in the name caste, religion and nationality. Ayyadurai is bad ok. What about Samir Bramachari. Dr.Kusbite ghosh (CSMCRI), honest and eminent senior scientist in CSIR lab would have been the DG CSIR. But Samir fraudulent game got him the DG CSIR post overriding Dr.Ramasamy and Ghosh. Thanks for IISc lobby and Bengali -political lobby. hwile he (samir) was in IISC, he played role of a ....? people at IISC know well who is this Samir and all. Indian elite scientific community knows who was behind Samir. Now Samir has formed a army of sycophants and it is not good CSIR and the country. Let Samir introspect and do things on his own.
Hey Anon 96, I dont know who is behind Samir and waht role he played in IISc? Please Explain.
How SAMIR became the DGH CSIR , Is it in a honest way ? He overirded Kusbite Ghosh-CSMCRI and Dr.Ramasamy by using all the so called leftist's support from Bengal MP's lobby and from some IISc lobby. Every knows the history and achievemnets of Samir at IISc. Sycophants ask your Samir to do good things in CSIR. Having joined with CPIM support, let him do justification for common indian.
Shiva thought that he is an insufferable know it all...!!! But too bad ..........!!! he has been proven wrong...
The only person who calls SKB Samir is Shiva. So comment 96 is from Shiva Ayyadurai. His Sunday has started! He sits in Boston and preaches! Why not look for a job, man!
But Anon 98, if i remember properly Samir became Director IGIB during Congress govt. and his successful leadership during IGIB tenure led him to be DG CSIR. So, you should blame Congress and join BJP.
Well well well..........now that we know that anon 96 is Shiva himself, we shud ask him how he feels about his recently received critical acclaim of being a con artist.Tell us how it feels being an Indian and yet making a mockery of Indian science...!!! Shame on You.
Come on guys let us launch a protest against Nature India for having published Shiva's one sided story with proper review.
Friends, whenever this discussion here takes up an interesting turn, Shiva tries to deviate it from Boston. Let us focus on Indian science and the American effor to thwart our growth. Let us focus on Nature and its role. Let us discuss how CNR Rao is being kept away from his well deserved international acclaim. That is the real game plan of the cold war mongers in US. Shiva's actions on this blog to deviate this discussion confirms he is on their pay rolls. I am at Trivandrum and am willing to take up and organise the protest against Nature here. Let us show the game planners that India is no banana republic. Nature India should realise this, let us make them realise it.
It become a world of sycophants. They will not allow the men in power to think and act. Why should we bother for shiva ayyaduarai or sardana ?. But we have to bother for CSIR, a premier R&D org whic is in doll drums, the system followed there should be corrected for well being of science and the country. Sycophants do not interfere. Samir need not fight with gun on others shoulders. He is clever man and need not depend upon on these selfish sycophants. They may collect all their replies/comments brought by them in blogs and submit before Samir and may get all the benefits they wanted when they are not deserving for it. Samir has to be independent. beware sycophants.
I agree with Anon 85 and 87. Let us plan a protest against Shiva and Nature India here on the blog. we have had enough of biased, one sided publications. Nature should check their facts before publication.
The post by Anon 105 is again by Shiva Ayyadurai. Have brakfast man! He doesnt want us to discuss Nature India or American born journalists who have ganged up against Indian science.
Well I was going through blogger at Freeddom of Science (Shiva's own blog). It was 19 comments 15 mins back and now there is only 15. 4 comments has been removed and new comments are blocked from publishing. Well nice transparency Shiva........
Anon 108 You are right, 4 recent comments that appeared for more than a hour on Freedom for Science blog have been removed just a while ago as they were not exactly favorably to Shiva and his claims. Now so much so for transparency preached by Shiva....
I have copies these comments. I'll be posting those here shortly for all to see.
Hey Anon 107, you should understand Shiva need to show his loyalty towards both Nature India and American born journalists who have ganged up against Indian science. Otherwise how can he sustain. Because he lost his ground in front of true Indians.
Shiva you are such a failure man........!! Such a let down.Fight like a man and not like coward ( Blocking away comments and all that...!!). Accept your failure and look for a nice job. And next time better be careful...........do not get caught (RED HANDED).
Shiva is not a failure. He has exposed to us the western interests in tarnishing Indian science and the complicity of Nature India in all this. We should thank Shiva.
I am anon-105: sycophants have ganged up for selfish motives.It become a world of sycophants. They will not allow the men in power to think and act. Why should we bother for shiva ayyaduarai or sardana ?. But we have to bother for CSIR, a premier R&D org whic is in doll drums, the system followed there should be corrected for well being of science and the country. Sycophants do not interfere. Samir need not fight with gun on others shoulders. He is clever man and need not depend upon on these selfish sycophants. They may collect all their replies/comments brought by them in blogs and submit before Samir and may get all the benefits they wanted when they are not deserving for it. Samir has to be independent. beware sycophants. KERALA-Bengali elite lobby have already swallowed the lives of Ceylon tamil people,now they are in open concentration camps by bengali-malayalee elite bureaucrats. now they are playing with telengana poor people... save downtrodden people of India and their rights. pitty for samir.
Here is one of the comments that was removed from Freedom for science (Blog supporting Shiva):
The original blog at freedom for Science called for comments and support from Dr. Swapan Kumar Das. Here is what Dr. Das has to say on the Nature India episode as it appears in http://shiva-ayyadurai.blogspot.com/:
Now that the entire Ayyadurai Expose and V Patel commentary in nature Network has suddenly disappeared, it raises some interesting questions on the stand of Nature on this.
1) Is Nature India Editor hand-in glove with Shiva Ayyadurai and promoting this entire scam ? What is the incentive and what is the game-plan ?
2) Why is Nature India giving so much coverage and promotion, and selectively blacking out "real" facts from public. Is this what Nature India calls "professionalism" or "journalism" ?
3) What are the conditions in which an unsubstantiated and personal version of the story find its way to the Nature India website, and why are commentaries who tell the other side of the story summarily rejected ?
4)What is Nature Correspondent Jayaraman's stand on the Shiva Ayyadurai episode ? Now that Jayaraman has little words to write on anything significant in Indian Science, probably he should give way for somebody younger.
It seems that the whole plan of asking Dr. Swapan Kumar Das for support has back fired for Shiva.
------
This comment appeared for over an hour on the Freedom for science blog site before it was removed. Removal of this comment from the Freedom for Scinece Blog demonstrates the degree of transparency adopted by people who preach such things. Good try guys!!
Anon 105 is Shiva again. He is deviating attention whenever Nature India or foreign journalists are discussed. Can we not see that pattern? Just roll up the curser and look. He does it meticulously. Good Job! Your paymasters must be happy, man!
Friends, there are progressive groups at JNU who can take up and expose Nature India's duplicity in containing Indian Science. There are also very good NGO's like Angad working in this field. Let us rope all of them in this fight to expose the western duplicity.
Mr.Anon-115: please shut up your liar's mouth. Apart from your CSIR pay, you will be paid extra by means of foreign trips korea, singapore , germany and also merit promotions . You can also loot in the name of purchase of instrumnets and materials. by anon: 105
Once Banerjee raised Nature India, there he is again with next post in 117. It seems Anon 115 is right.
A clear pattern is emerging as suggested by blogger 77 of Shiva Ayyadurai Fan club.
1. Everyone who has written in support of Shiva right from the HT journalist, NYT or Nature has a strong western connection.
2. Shiva has exited India in a hurry not even bothering to follow up on his Court case filed in the India Judicial system.
3. Shiva's Visa status is still unclear. Did he have permission to apply for work in India?
4. Now Nature India and freedom for Science Blogs sites are selectively blocking comments. This is tailoring public opinion.
5. There is a increasing feeling that Shiva was out to discredit Indian Science with US help.
Hey Shiva. Shame on you. On one hand you are saying you want to do something for India and on other hand you playing blame game on Indian Systems (for not being a part of your fraud). First you look at yourself, rectified yourself then you should try to do something for India. Otherwise dont introduce yourself as Indian. How can you think of making use of organization like CSIR which we consider as our proud.
Dear Mr. Anon117.....tell me how much are you being paid by Shiva and "company" for your participation in this controversy and supporting them..........???
This blog is run by a known hypocrat. Everyone knows that people like Mashelkar, Brahamachari have problem in ethics. They can plagarize, threaten reporters but leftist like this blogger will not complain. Just do google on Mashelkar and plagerism and will know all the facts. It is easy to blast nobody like shiva.
Nobody can save SAMIR when he is going to be shown the door out by our Hon'ble Pm Dr.Manmohan Singh. Atleast some intelligent sycophants can be helpful some extent. i do not what research these gang-s can with S & T. They wrongly predict that i am ayyadurai and i am supporting nature India. Why you people have to go to JNU. Did you really support the radicals at JNU and its movement. They are gansters or mercenaries to work for you , selfish people. Your own brothers working in CSIR were butchered by the so called CSIR system, could open your voice for them. Sycophancy is a cowrdice act. I am neither shiva nor a supporter of nature India. Do not mislead people. by ANON-105
In addition to Annon 119
Shiva's best buddy (Shardana) was also educated abroad and has a strong western connection.
Then there are issues of financial mismanagement by Shiva during his stint in India.
And Shiva's unceremonious exit out of the press conference called by him with reporters calling him a fraud.
Hello Anon 122 or is it Shiva.......you are quite smart...when ever we talk about your doings, your Anti-Indian Science behaviour....you deviate from the topic...........You Can be A DAMN GOOD LAWYER....WHAT SAY...??? Shame on You......!!!
Be bold Anon 105.
Open your identity.
Shiva, what happen?
You became silent.
Taking advice from some American journalist?
Dont you worry about anyone anon 123. You may be Shiva the malicious coward or one of his paid servant.....we dont care, but remember Indian Science has no place for anti-Indians like you.
I agree with you anon 127, may be he is running out of words and needs to consult some american journalist, in order to improve his vocabulary...!!!
one malayalee and one bengali is putting the comments on behalf of HIS MASTER'S VOICE. Just i could not control my laughter as SAMIR has such ---less aids to bear his gun. you boss is there, so no discplinary action against you if you reveal your names though you are all IGIB scientists. You are alll brave people is it. then give names in this blog. Written by ANON:105
tel me anon 105, how much are you being paid by Shiva and "Company"...for supporting them...???
Lets contact the NGOs at JUN and take on Nature India for their biased scientific reporting. We must teach them a lesson for blocking freedom of press.
Anon 105 and 130 :
you seem to know everyone. You are the master of this game. So why don't you revel their identity.
are you talking about "being brave" anon 105???......i think you are SHIVA coz he is the only one who can talk about big things and not following it himself. Shame on You Shiva Shame on You....this phrase is apt for you "BIG WORDS, SMALL DEEDS"...!!!
As America wakes up Anti Indian scientist comments have started flowing on this blog. The comment on Dr. Mashelkar is in that vein. Dr. Mashelkar is now the Board member of Tata and Reliance along with other top notch experts in the respective fields. Indian private sector knows the worth of this scientist who is an FRS. The western world want to discredit Indian science leaders so that they do not have to recognise Indian science. Anon 122's post is an effort in that direction. We can see more such western blogs coming up now as India goes to sleep.
ohhhhhhhhhh Anon 105.
You are not an Indian.
You dont know anything about IGIB or Indian Scientist.
You think IGIB is of only one malayalee and one bengali.
Feeling so sorry for you.
Ask your Nature India friend what is Indian Scientist. We are India.
But now we understand who you are as you have so less knowledge about India.
Shiva and co. where you people are?
Looks like all comments at Freedom for Science Blog site (read as Shiva's voice) are not in favor of Shiva. Since the last update at 10.48 am there has been no postings. Shiva seems to be running out of luck today.
(For new readers: Four posts were removed earlier tonight from Freedom for Science as that were not exactly favorable for Shiva. So much for their much preached transparency)
This thread is hilarious! Everything from CIA conspiracy to Bengali-Malayalee lobby, JNU activists and Srilankan Tamils!
You guys should comment more often! :)
Anon 138 you pointed out correctly. Shiva does not practice what he preaches, otherwise why would he block the four comments on the blog. He and Nature India have hidden agenda. Now that both have been exposed by the blogers here, they should go home with black faces.
As more and more people tonight are realizing the true motive of Shiva and Nature India. Shame on Both.
Shiva's fraud has been exposed to the world.
Anon 135 is right. Take the case of M S Swaminathan. If Norman Borlaug won Nobel Prize, Swaminathan deserves one too. Will he get it. The same western world will never recognise that. Nature India wont sing his praises, Indian farmers will. That is what Indian science is about. We dont want these western journals, journalists and their cohorts. If one farmer has a better day, that is the reward of science.
Shiva should write something in his own favor on the Freedom for Science Blog site just like he did in his Nature India commentary.
Shame on Nature India for publishing such a one sided story.
Nature India editor is an inexperienced journalist. She doesnt know the basic tenets of journalism. Only one thing to see is how far is Nature standing by her.
Anon 142 you are right on the bull's eye. The western media and people like Shiva will never understand how to evaluate Indian science.
Nature India editor might have been thinking if nature stop her supporting, Shiva will support her. But madam editor its Shiva, the FRAUD.
how about recommending her to run Shivas International Center for Integrative Systems at Chennai aka Millenium Productions.
For new readers The mission of the center seems to be really crap, it reads
Leading Institute for reseach in integration traditional and modern systems of art, science and technology. Within this broad mission, our current focus is on a project to integrate traditional systems of medicine with modern systems of biology.
I just joined and read some of the items with interest. I was also pondering why Nature should put out such one sided post. I had also seen http://horadecubitus.blogspot.com/ where a respected blogger had suggested that CSIR can even sue in London or here in US. But it seems there is a bigger plan behind all this. If the attempt is to discredit Indian leaders, the Nature India editor will have the support of the group which Anon 77 has pointed out. She has nothing to worry. Her job is secure.
Anon 148, now all Indian should stand together against these anti-India agencies and sideline their spy like Shiva.
Looks like Shiva aka Anon 105 has run out of words today. Where are u Shiva.........
Good work Abi.
We have reached 150 posts. Get Shiva back we can target 200 posts tonight.
As suggested by Anon 148, I just read the comments at http://horadecubitus.blogspot.com/.
For once CSIR and Govt of India should sue Nature India and Shiva for their one sided story. They might have good case on their side. I wish Shiva were still in India for such a case.
Dear Ann 59 and 114 and “insider” of Shiva Ayyadurai Fan club,
Nature can remove any bog or comments from their website based on their company rules. Nature is the most reputed international journal and we all should respect it. So, I have nothing to say against Nature and his honest correspondents.
I asked this question to nature and reply was as follows:
From: Peplow, Mark
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 6:37 AM
To: Swapan K. Das
Dear Professor Das, thanks for your note. A variety of comments have been deleted from this thread after other readers pointed out that they contained accusations about other individuals which contravened our terms and conditions of posting, including personal accusations.
Best
mark
Mark Peplow, PhD
News editor, Nature
Nature, 4 Crinan St, London, UK
N1 9XW
From: killugudi jayaraman
Subject: RE: shiva-csir controversy
To: "Swapan Kumar Das"
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 9:36 PM
Dear Dr.Das,
I also noticed it was removed by the moderator. It is entirely a decision by editors in London. I suppose you can always send another comment omitting anything objectionable in your first version. Regards, Jayaraman.
***********************************************
You all can read my original post, comments against it and my rebuttal in Nanopolitan or “Abi’s blog at :
http://nanopolitan.blogspot.com/2009/11/laffaire-ayyadurai-was-csir-wrong-to.html
Dr. Das,
Thanks for sharing the mails with us. As a company Nature is within its right to remove comments from its blog sites. However why should Nature remove only selective comments and make the story appear one sided. By selective removal of comments Nature has reveled that it has hidden agenda in shaping public opinion to Indian Science.
Thats eexactly the point, Swapan. Nature and Nature India is making a story. A one-sided version of the story. Nature India editor should resign taking moral responsibility of the fiasco if she is not part of the gameplan. We Indians need to know hwat heppened behind the scenes and who is behind it. It cannot be just poor Shiva.
Who is Kusbite Ghosh ? I googled for the name but could not fins any information .
I have just posted at the Shiva Ayyadurai fan Club on the gag on "free" sppech at the "Freedom of Science" Blog, the mouthpiece of the Shiva Ayyadurai team. It is not surprising that the posts were removed as it were against Nature India and Nature India Editor who have been supporting Ayyadurai really hard, even when all the other journos left him.
But anyway it proves the "Freedom of Science" is a farce and stands to promote a one-sided view , also read "Their" version of the story. Good job guys !!
I am shocked to see the bizarre rationales and fantastical conclusions that were reached by this group overnight. If you guys are serious and are CSIR scientists, it makes me worried about the future of CSIR.
Ankur, have you seen this one ? The Shiva Ayyadurai Fan Club has just unearthed another major SA fraud. this time it is his graduate student webpage claiming himself a faculty. The Blogger reveals this time, step by step how SA got to creating his website and interestingly leaves it for the people to decide on it.
I believe this is another major fraud after the previous one by SA on the Nature India commentary. Good going Shiva
This is nothing less than ridiculous, I should say. Thanks SA fans club for bringing out this
Proves Shiva is nothing other than a con. Pro is probably the best word.
Shiva is a fraud is a fraud is a fraud
Now guys, we have now found who Shiva is and how much we should believe on what he and his cronies tell about CSIR. I am sure there are going to be at least a hundred random posts on CSIR and Samir and blah and blah. I would not be surprised if the upcoming posts are going to discuss about random things and keep the focus away from FRAUD that SA had done and has been doing all the way.
Now that the snake is dead. let us cremate it.
Yes. The CSIR-TECH report too is so silly. There is no reason to take him seriously on the basis of that. He comes across as one of those NRIs/ABCDs with a enlarged self-image, over-simplified and shallow manner of thinking, a narrow, selfish view of the world and dubious sincerity and moral clarity. I pity Brahmachari for having hired such a person.
My votes are with you Uno
and with you, Ankur
I have been saying this Ankur, for quite some time now, that SA is a creation of International media. Read HT, Nature, Nature India and NYT. The real story is something very different. I have been in touch with a number of CSIR scientists in my capacity as a journo. I have been in his press meeting where he was badly trashed. One colleague even called him a LIAR.
I see vested interests in the story Nature India has published, and I should say Nature India editor has erred on her part in this episode(I know her for sometime now). I wish she would come out in public apologising for this huge mistake (unless she herself has been knowingly part of it).
and the evidence also points to Jayaraman, the Nature correspondent for India. Being an Indian, I feel ashamed of him. You do not need statistics to show that he almost always paints Indian scientists in a bad shade. He never covers any important discovery by Indian scientists, nor use his skills to project great work done in India. he is nothing but an India basher, right here in India. hope you folks realise him.
I agree that Nature India is not a credible source. I have not had previous experience with it, so I don't want to comment on whether it has any malicious design in maligning Indian science. In the same way, I don't want to think of the Shiva episode as a conspiracy against CSIR. There may be, just may be, some reason for the US pharma companies to plant him as a spy or as a virus to kill OSDD, but I have no knowledge in this regard to make such a guess.
I think all parties here apart from CSIR itself are acting ruthlessly in their self-interest. Shiva is a small-time fraud who thrives on these kind of petty crimes and was looking the next chance to pick-pocket, when he managed to impress Brahmachari. Nature India seems tabloidish to me, looking only for some masala news. Foreign media (NYT, in particular) does not even strive to be objective about the world outside the US. They merely write stories that they like to read.
CSIR on the other hand, and particularly Brahmachari has been very dignified in his response by not getting vocal at all. Some, like Pushpa Bharagava, in fact tried to humbly see some truth in whatever Shiva wrote.
This kind of introspection and self-criticism is the burden of the intellectuals; it is not for the thugs or for the self-serving. That CSIR has carried this burden with forbearance shows CSIR in much better light than Shiva or Nature India. At the same time, it is good that someone CSIR finally spoke out and that too in a calm and civilised manner.
Finally, congratulations to Abi and the Shiva Ayyadurai fan club for pursuing this issue with passion!
What a fantastic title, that Abi gave and how over the weekened, bloggers not only unravelled Shiva Ayyadurai, but also systematic ploy to discredit Indian science and its leaders. If you read carefully, bloggers have carefully watched the pattern of comments and established a systematic effort to tarnish the image of Indian science leaders. It has also brought out how recognition like Nobel is denied for Prof C N R Rao and Prof Swaminathan. The bloggers went behind the investigative journalists and found that all of them covering the story as of American origin. The CIA interest that was suggested was probably too outlandish. But Ankur now brings out a new facet of pharma industry involvemnt. Whatever it is one fail to undersdtand the motive of Nature in its highly unprofessional approach. An Annon had suggested that Nature India post is the result of having an inexperienced editor but Dr. Das'c comments show that Nature itself is backing it up. The true nature of Nature has been unravelled. The mail of Jayaraman shows how helpless he is. It is good that bloggers brought out this. Real investigative stuff!
Anon above: are you serious or satirical? I am sorry I cannot tell. And pl note that the pharma industry guess on my part is totally baseless.
My fellow Indian scientists. This is indeed a deap conspiracy to discredit Indian Science. I challenge the Nobel Committee to ignore CNR Rao again. The Infosys Prize and the Bhatnagar Awards are much bigger anyway.
And I request all of you to boycott Nature. No more shall your works cite any Nature article. No more shall any Indian submit any article to Nature. We must treat this evil organization with the true disdain it deserves.
Abi, I exhort you to spread this patriotic word through this fine blog of yours. May CSIR rise and beat the Brookhavens and the CERNs of the world.
Down Down Pakistan and ISI as well. They are colluding with CIA here...
Let us return to the glory days when India was the envy of the world. We gave the world zero, the vedas. Our kings had incredible weapons and flying chariots. I exhort all of you to strive towards recreating those days when India was the envy of the world!
Bharat Mata Ki Jai!
Ankur kulkarni,
I am not sure what made you comment that "Brahmachari has been very dignified in his response by not getting vocal at all". Threatening NY times reporter and ordering Star news reporter to stop camera seems dignified to you? He committed several crimes; "SA case" is just an example which got lot of media. "Insider" in comment 21 already admitted the "problem", He is from DG of CSIR' office.
I am not sure how long we Indian's have to tolerate this kind of corrupt people. Encouragement from people like you is the reason that in India in all section of life starting from political, legislative and academic sector corruption is ubiquitous. We should come out of this general norm for our better future.
It is good that Nature India ousted all propaganda machines hosted in their site starting from Vinod Scaria, Sredhar Sivasubbu' and Vpatel. Instead of being busy in doing good science CSIR scientist like VS and SS is using internet facility purchased from public/government money to support a corrupt leader.
Nature India site is for creative and constructive discussion not for support of any dictator like SKB or an idiot like Shiva. Jayraman is absolutely fair individual. I believe only in one thing “Satyameba Jayatay” or “Truth Prevails”. When Scientist’s from CCMB (CSIR) are publishing good science in Nature, Nature Genetics and Science and trying to establish credibility of “Indian Science” the DG-CISR is inviting trouble for Indian science by his feudal attitude. We need to be very tough skinned to tolerate such insanity.
This is also a conspiracy by pharma companies who want to stifle Open Source Drug Discovery that will make India a drug superpower like the olden days of Ayurveda.
We must cripple Nature by not referring to it or contributing to it anymore.
We need scientist like Sri Murli Manohar Joshi who understands science being physicist himself and a fearless leader like Advaniji. Not Congress and Communists.
Bharat Mata Ki Jai
Just as the character of Mother Sita was upheld by the Agneepareeksha, our beloved DG will also come out unscathed. Ayyadurai is like the evil demon king Ravan who is unsuccessfully tried to capture Seeta Mother. I commend all the scientists who are fighting back like the Vanar Sena. We must be united now as the world is jealous of India's success. US and CIA sent Ayyadurai here to poach Indian talent for NASA, Los Alamos and etc. He was asked to get the cream of talent to the US because their education system does not train them to be great researchers. Almost 45% of NASA is from India. They are jealous of India and are offering their dirty dollars to make us greedy and sell the Motherland. We must fight and make our Mother India great. Let us all stand up for 1 minute in silence for the CSIR scientists who are glorifying this great nations.
Bharat Mata Ki Jai!
Considering the immaturity of the Star News report and how opportunistic and one-sided it sounded, I think it leaves the DG with very few options. I am guessing that something similar must have happened with NYT too. Both reports were one-sided and lousily researched.
Think about it: when a reporter comes to the DG without an open mind and instead with a conclusion in mind and only an interest in some gossip, the DG is bound to be irritated. And if the reporter insists on putting his faith in a fraud and reporting a totally false story, the DG is perfectly right in threatening to complain to his boss. You have to remember that both reports were immature to the extent that reporter did not even seem capable of making sense of the complexity involved in the case and see the DG's reaction in that light.
The DG did not go about making an adverse media propaganda against Shiva, the way Shiva has done against the DG and CSIR, despite the fact that the DG is being wronged so deeply. Shiva looks cheap to me, and as I said, in comparison, by resisting the temptation to fall to Shiva's level, the DG seems very dignified.
My friends. The rise of India is worrying other nations. We must use this opportunity to test our true limits. Just as the bomb gave us self respect under Vajpayeeji, we must realise that UPA govt is upto no good. We need a strong decisive BJP govt at the center. Modiji and Yediyurappaji are the leaders of tomorrow. Do not support these feudal Gandhi family sycophants who are ruining the Indian rise to power.
Vajpayeeji had added "jai Vigyan" to "Jai Jawan Jai kisan.." and made India a nuclear superpower. Why should we allow traitors like Shiva who took US citizenship to control our science establishment? We have put spacecraft to moon. Let us now pioneer the first open source cure for AIDS! And yes, that great discovery will not be reported in Nature, but in the Indian Journal for Bio-Informatics. We must proudly say Infy-laureate and not Noble-laureate because grate scientists like SN Bose, CNR Rao and APJ Kalam have been ignored by the Noble prize committees. Let us be proud of our motherland. Congress is the opposite of Progress.
Jai Hind!!
But DG-CSIR SK Brahmachari is a strong congress suppoter. not a bengali Communist or BJP-RSS What we do with him?
PB: 45% NASA as Indians? Have you verified it? By making such stupid comments with a jingoistic tone, dont dilute the discussion on SA.
Annon 179, this is no more a discussion on Shiva. His fraud has been unveiled. It is now a discussion on CIA or pharma conspiracy against Indian science leaders. Have you not seen what Annon 119 brought out:
1. Everyone who has written in support of Shiva right from the HT journalist, NYT or Nature has a strong western connection.
2. Shiva has exited India in a hurry not even bothering to follow up on his Court case filed in the India Judicial system.
3. Shiva's Visa status is still unclear. Did he have permission to apply for work in India?
4. Now Nature India and freedom for Science Blogs sites are selectively blocking comments. This is tailoring public opinion.
5. There is a increasing feeling that Shiva was out to discredit Indian Science with US help.
So there is a clear conspiracy behind this episode. Now the discussion is to dig the real nature of this conspiracy and the role of Nature in it. To what extent is Mark Peplow himslef is involved in this conspiracy? Please have a look at his reply (Dr. S K Das 153 above). He admits selective removal of blog but keeps Shiva's one sided story!
Read the posts 123 and 70. There seem to be a crystal clear conspiracy against Brahmachari, to dislodge him as DG. These entries bring in PM into discussion. And states almost for sure that PM will show Brahmachari the door. (remember Freud?) Couple this with the much publicised letter written by Shiva Ayyadurai to PM. The aim is to dislodge Brahmachari from DG's seat. And see the western interest. Shiva writes a letter to PM, people with American background rachet up, Shiva comes on blogs and create a publicity campaign, leaves India and creates a website to broadcast from US. Create a controversy where non exist, blow it up in the media! Then adorn the mantle of saviour of CSIR!! To this interesting well planned and executed events, throw Nature's effort to resurrect a dead controversy, selctively direct public opinion and the pharma industry interest in getting Brahmachari out. Elementary folks! This is textbook stuff, the good old game they used to play.
All you people supporting a feudal, bureaucratic DG CSIR are blind idiots. Nobel Prize for what ? to whom ? Tagore, Sarojini naidu, CV Raman, the greatmen of india lead a humble life in India like any other average indian but brought laurels to mother india and world science, they do not know the cutthroatpolitics.They gave everything what they had to the world. What about CNR Rao and others. Now our blood connection venkataraman Ramakrishnan got it. Is there any theory or equation or new innovations behind CNRR. When he is the DIrector of IISC, with IISC money he constructed palace for him , the researchers made a dharana and open protests at IISc campus. He produced bundles of bureaucrats from sycophants lobby to man and spoil Indian R&D institutions.Jingoism will fail. What is the name of Director, CSMCRI-- Kusbit---Ghosh, Bhavanagar. The persons writing comments in this blog on behalf of DG CSIR are babies to CSIR along with Samir; they do not know the history and problems in CSIR. You people will beat the chest for rulers. in your carer you can be a blacksheep or traitor, but you can not become a fullpledged man or a Hero. SATYAVEDA JAYATHE. RA Mashelkar is corrupt person aho swindled CSIR and so the Relainace company have taken him as alliance partner. making Noise and shouting will not solve the problem. CSIR system to be corrected. CSIR further lose its minumum creditiblity it is earning by hard work of some good scientists and technologists by idiote UNO CSIR and Ankur and finally ABi. There are court cases pending against RA Mashelkar in Delhi courts for his abuse powers while he was so called CEO of CSIR. RA-Maslkr claimed himself as CEO of CSIR. He Embraced SUdarshan (RSS) at Nagpur in Public ceremony during 1999. Fotos are in the front page "THE HINDU' daily news paper. His much claimed SARAS ..? poor man india thousands of crores on this. Any legal action these faulters ..? That is CSIR and it culture. It should be changed. Now CSIR made appointments to 12 of its labs. Let us know, how many Bangalis have been appointed as Directors ?. Let these idiots get the details bring out in this blog. Other wise I will bring their names. The present CSIR system is created by Samir, but it was further aggreavated by Mashelkkar and company. It is not the Samir has created it. But instead of changing the system or setting right h e adds fuel to already burning palace- the CSIR. You people, selfish odds will have request your samir to stop this nonsense. Maselakr did not like Samir and mashelkar is telling his friends at IIT, Delhi that " DWARF IS DROWNING". I do not hate Samir bt I pity him as he useless fellow like you who can be childish and irrelevant. WRITTEN BY ANON: 105. I am nor your Ayyathurai . But your scientist fraternity.
Anon 105: If you reveal your identity, I will cheer for you to become the next DG CSIR ;-)
Seriously speaking, unless you say something more coherent and carefully thought out, I am compelled to ignore your comments.
Lenghthier Discussions for nothing. Points may be coherent if there is only one question and one point. Those who are in discussion are not interested to read others views. but they continuosly blaming "you are SA etc etc". The main thing to be discussed is " what made SA to write in Chapter 7". OK if you doubt his (SA) integrity, it is O.K. We only or the system only hired him 9 No.1- Adhocism). Now he was sent out ok. Do we (CSIR) deserve introspection of past and the present or not?. CSIR performance should be compared with other R&D organisations. Whether achievements communsurate to salary paid had been achieved in terms of Technologies or world class Research publications with new theories, innovations and what not of Science & Engg . The CSIR system became rotten system during its 60 years of existence. The careers of Very good scientists had been butchered by victimisation. Fraudulent Directors were allowed to flourish and accumulate wealth by means of appointments, contracts, purchases etc. They were protected by the system. IF the DIrector praises the DG or shares the booty with him he will be encouraged by the system proceed further. But those who complains of looting and robbery by Directors were punished and sent out from the system. There is no accountability for scientist taking projects from Govt agencies, CSIR also will not bother those men. There is foot licking promotion (dptl) system and so on. Prof.Ankur Kulkarni!, your threatening poster is reminding me that of RA Mashelkar. The episode (SA-SAMIR-CSIR) should be an eye opener to set right the system. First transfer all the Admn people who were there for more than 3 years at CSIR Hqrs. It is followed in Scientific and Technical level. With good parliamentarians and human right activists (Bhusan, and eminent people like Prof.MM.Sharma, Prof Chopra, and not CNRR, the system to be reviewed and corrected. New system is to be evalued and to be followed. Written by : ANON: 105 only. I appreciate the threatening postures of Prof.Dr.Anil kulkarni. ??
Anon 184. stop your crap . If you have some points, raise it, dont diver it .
Vinod and IGIB co, Anil kulkarni are back. DG CSIR zindabad ? sycophancy zindabad ? Selfish odds zindabad ? Bravemen murdabad ? is it OK for you people ? LONG LIVE CSIR. LONG LIVE INDIA.
Another Blogger alleges Nature's hand-in-glove involvement in the entire Shiva Ayyadurai fiasco. http://horadecubitus.blogspot.com/2009/12/shiva-ayyadurai-rumbles-on.html
see the Series of Blogs on the Nature involvement in this episode at the Shiva Ayyadurai fans Club http://shiva-ayyadurai.blogspot.com/
Vinod and IGIB co, Anil kulkarni and PB are back. DG CSIR zindabad ? sycophancy zindabad ? Selfish odds zindabad ? Bravemen murdabad ? is it OK for you people ? You may not like to raise words in praising our country and our CSIR. You are interested in peddaling with bureaucracy and sharing the booty.
Anon 186 and 188 stop diverting the topic.
If you do not have anything to say just watch from sidelines.
This is a Congress conspiracy by Sonia Gandhi to divert attention from Bofors, Bhopal and Ayodhya. We must not let these Italians interfere with our CSIR.
USA is dependent on Indian talent like Iraqi oil. Hence it is trying to induce our talent to come to NASA. Not just NASA but 22.5% of MIT and 18.2% of Berkeley is Indian. Carnegie Mellon University says that only Indians rejected by IIT go to top US Univs. Look at NR Narayana Murthys son who went to Cornell after not clearing JEE. Also, Prometric, the creator of GRE and TOEFL purposely screwed up new CAT to lure our talent to Harvard and other B Schools and undermine the IIMs which are far harder to enter.
CSIR faces threat from these sellouts like Ayyadurai who is like Ravana. He sends golden deer to lure Seeta Mata from her safe abode.
It has been proven by NIH that Ayurveda is far more efficacious than standard allopathy, and Vedic mathematics follows the most sophisticated algorithms possible.
Panini the ancient sage had written a sutra that is now known as Einsteins relativity theory. We have been ruined by Mughal and British invasion.
We must fight back. Modiji is our future.
Bharat mata ki jai!!!
Anony 189, Nobody argues with a Schizophrenic. Why waste your precious time arguing with the supporter of a fraudster and con artist?
I am new entrant to this debate. I have gone thro' debates and comments. What I find is not to pertinent to the point. We have to analysis the consequence on both sides.
Dr.Shiva ayyaduarai is wrong when he published something about his former employor DG CSIR. He has complained to PM and Minister . It is alright. He has to wait for the disposals from PM and minister for his complaints. Then he approach the court. This is the set up at CSIR. Everybody knows, he will not get justice and covere ups only we expect from the higher places. It is the CSIR. If he could cop up with these master slaves, you can be there as their boss,otherwise he can be there in boston as AMerican.
What about our Prof.Samir Braumachari, Director General of Scientific and Industrial Research (DGSIR) CSIR . He is a very silly personality and he used pull down safety clothings of his enemies or rivals in the open place when he gets a chance.
One year back he visited one CSIR laboratory where one of his IISC senior colleague was working as the Director of that Institute. Samir did not like him and wanted to boss over him by showing authority. Somebody from that lab had sent anonymous pettitions with forged signature of 13-14 persons from the labs against the Director to DGSIR alleging that the DIrector has a daughter thro' his illegal wife etc etc . Samir brought that letter to that lab and asked all persons whose signs found in that letter to come to Guest house. There were 50 people in the guest house. He asked one of the persons to read the letter loudly in the presence of that Director. Then he asked them to verify their signature in that letter. All the persons there denied having signed such letter. They started begging the DG to ask the DIrector not to take any action or vindicative action. The Director, old man, was about to weep. He was brought up in a very disciplined family and he was "SHISYA" of Prof.CN.RAo and has his blessings. Samir hurted both sides and humiliated both the sides . He knew very well that there is no truth in the particular allegation against the Director. He also knew that it is a forged document and that the scientists who alleged to have forged their signatures are also innocent people. Then why he made such a drama? waht is motive or his actios were motiveless?. He taken nengeance against the old amn who is about 10 years junior to by age and position at IISC. It is the work of vigilance (CSIR) people. Everything should be handled in a confidential way by proper authority and means. An academically top scientist like SAMIR should not .....have . The director of lab, it is learnt, left and rejoined in IISC back as it professor. truths can be verified by contacting CVO, CSIR
ANONymous-No 192 comments are well balanced, but allegations are to be verified. We have to ask SAMIR people directly to verify the facts. otherwise.....
Anonymous 192 . Stories or can be verified ?
Anything interesting ?
Very much interesting to see the anything. Thanks ANON-195
Anthing is not about SA or SKB but about somebody sought by American FBI. Are we slaves of US. Don't we have other links - any indian pages- very bad.. colonial slave mentality of anon-195. He is the one of the moderator maintaining the blog it seems..
Most of the comments, on all sides of this debate, are extraordinarily clear, logical and well- argued. If this reflects the median quality in Indian science we are in very good shape. It also appears that the median quality of Indian science leadership is very similar to the quality of the comments here. Clearly, we have the leadership we deserve.
We need dynamic leadership like Narendra Modi who will revolutionize our science. Our atom bomb was more powerful than Pakistan's. It is done by Indians but US also depends on Indian brains. Hence they want to make fun of us. It is Chinese conspiracy too. We must be united. Ratan Tata must become president. He is a great visionary and astute businessman.
Jai Hind. Vande Mataram
I am honored to make 200th post as well. Our country is in need of a fearless leader. We must recognize that we are the grates national in the universe. Our contributions include everything from pythagoras theorem (sutra by Brahmagupta) to herbal petrol. IITJEE is toughest exam in the world. NASA relies on India to launch satellites. MIT would be crippled without Indian students to challenge the frontiers of reason. We must fight these traitors and for that we need an able Prime Minister.
Vande Mataram
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